consists of two people.

Lucian Grainge and Simon Cowell.

Discuss.

Sadly, I don't think anyone can disagree with this.

Actually, that's only the major part of the music industry. There are many other talented producers, etc. who just don't get any media focus but who have more originality and vision.

True Dominic but with that stranglehold coupled with the fact that none of us have yet come up with an efficient new model; it's them or fingers crossed.

Maybe the industry part needs to die so that we are just left with music and performers who can begin again from basic and find their own preferred way of putting their music across to the listeners.

Maybe we need to put appreciation of music above profit from music.

I assume you mean Record Industry, as opposed to the wider Music Industry?

I think it consists of significantly more than 2 people, but those two do stand head and shoulders above the “next level”. Mike Smith, Ged Doherty, Jeremy Marsh (on the rebound), Ferdy Unger-Hamilton are also in the Record Industry and doing a rather good job, in my opinion. Your views on these people JK?

What a nonsensical statement this is JK. It is like saying the Premier League consists of Man Utd and Chelsea. All depends on how you look at it really.

You are forgetting the ones who are getting on with it without much fanfare and incident. What about Island Records, Xenomania etc.

Mind you Cowell is more of an entertainment industry exec rather than a record exec.

Needs intelligent analysis but sadly the rest are midgets.

Would that be Island Records which Grange oversees, being chairman of UMG? Or Xenomania who've had more misses than hits recently?

Get your facts straight. Cowell is one of the few making money from mainstream music - and that's not a compliment I'm paying him.

Right SW. So Cowell is the ONLY music exec in the UK industry ? Please use your intelligence please. No one is denying that Cowell is right up there but perhaps you should get your heads out of his ass for a moment and accept that he isn't the only one with success. Gee the music boards are truly truly full of idiots.

You illustrated your lack of knowledge with your obnoxious and idiotic post. I haven't got my head up Cowell's arse which you'd realise if you could be bothered to read my post. I am stating a plain fact.

Yeah, Xenomania are doing so well that they've let most of their staff go.

And rumours have it that Universal are letting 200 go. Hardly the legacy of success. While we are at it, why didn't you read my post ? Go and re-read it and then discuss with me or else shut it !

I think we can all agree that things are in a pretty bad way at the moment generally. There are thankfully some bright spots such as the "Cowell" TV phenomena and a couple of acts here and there who are doing well. But the general picture is terrible. The promised green shoots failed to come and what we are seeing on the TV is a lie - the fact the Bank of England is pumping another 25 BILLION Of funny money into the system today is evidence that everything is falling apart.

The music industry is a non essential and is now being hit hard.

Time to pull together and not argue. Eventually the Depression will end - 2016 ish I reckon. The next 6 years are going to be dreadful and everyone needs to see a way through those years.

The old model is broken - the new model never really got off the ground and relied on economic stability not a depression. The industry was caught between the two when the bankers took the economic house down.

The fact is - while there is still music and we are still alive - we survive. Its only rock and roll - and we LOVE it.

What everyone seems to be overlooking here is that Cowell is in the Television Business not the Music Business. How many times have I said this on this forum?

Does anyone think Cowell could move the music product of mediocre acts that everyone will forget about in two years, without Television as his business and music as its by-product?

I got infuriated at an arrogant Cowell upon seeing his video blurb saying that he sold more records than Bruce Springsteen. No Simon, Television sold more records than Bruce Springsteen. Records by people from two years ago that can't sell out a theater today, while Bruce can sell out football stadiums at will.

Ferdy etc, as mentioned, they are in the music business.

Well, being as I was Simon's original mentor, I must spring to his defence. He realised that TV was a great vehicle for breaking music. Now whether or not we like the music and the acts is neither here nor there... it is promotion and he was right.

Lucian knows that another way is having an efficient organisation. Likewise you may or may not like his projects (I remember him playing me the demos for SClub in his car) but his methods often work.

The Music Industry is more than just making, writing, recording, producing, performing - it is also breaking, selling, promoting, marketing...

The manstream music industry these days has more to do with marketing than the actual music. Various people in this thread would be advised to acknowledge this.

PNB, you really are a tool of the highest order.

Enough insults SW and PNB... for me, the music industry is about everything - creating and promoting, making and selling... when we all work together - magic. When we pretend one is better than the other - disaster.

JK2006 wrote:
Enough insults SW and PNB... for me, the music industry is about everything - creating and promoting, making and selling... when we all work together - magic. When we pretend one is better than the other - disaster.Well put JK, I've deliberately stayed out of these kind of spats for that exact reason.

I'm certainly not arguing Simon's numbers, he has sold more than Bruce. Its the way he sold them, that I'm arguing. Its the fast buck, then NEXT. He and Simon F certainly did see the power of TV in selling music. So did Ed Sullivan. The entry point, dollar wise, for an act to engage this level of marketing-exposure, leaves most acts and indeed most labels out of this particular game.

The problem is that it is now almost the only way to sell big numbers.

So I guess I should get out of the recording studio and start a TV show if I really want to sell records in 2009-into 2010. Why didn't I think of that in the first place?

Well said GG. I don't necessarily mind Cowell's music. I admire his methods which I think he stumbled into, after all it was Simon Fuller who first got to grips with TV marketed pop stars (S Club 7) and Pop Idol, which he borrowed from Australia who borrowed it from New Zealand who borrowed it from (insert every TV talent show in history).

My argument was despite Cowell and Grange being the most successful at what they do, there are others with success too.