I have been one of the people championing Youtube/online video matched with ads (including a direct link to iTunes)
as the new model and for most of the time it's fallen on deaf ears. Many people are looking for something else when
it is right under their noses.

For the last 10 years or so I have been involved in the interweb in various capacities and have seen the potential
of direct marketing online in all its various states. From the Everad (advert pop up in the music player) to Youtube.
JK you have said that the Youtube route is not the new model but I totally disagree and I think someone on here mentioned
that Rebecca Black's song was a hit to which you disagreed.

Friday has sold 2 million downloads since it went viral !!!

Not only that it has generated so much press and there has not been a single major label machine behind her.

If this is not the new model in action then there will NEVER be anything else.
20 million views has converted into 2 million downloads and instant millionaire status for Rebecca Black who owns
the music copyright and lots of money for the writers.

As an expert in novelty songs I think you should really take notice as this is indeed revolutionary.

www.rollingstone.com/music/news/what-you...becca-black-20110318

Fascinating post. How long will this take to cross over the Pond, one wonders?

DJKZ wrote:
20 million views has converted into 2 million downloads and instant millionaire status for Rebecca Black who owns
the music copyright and lots of money for the writers.

I'm not sure where the "millionaire status" comes from. Assuming you mean "millionaire" as in money. She's NOT anywhere near that status, and probably never will be.

DJKZ,

You are missing something fundamental. How are you suggesting people go about getting 20 million views in the first place?

Rebecca Black has done it by creating something so extraordinarily bad that people feel compelled to share it with others. The same way people share videos of car crashes/people falling over / cats jumping on people's faces.

That hardly constitutes a basis for a "model".

You often talk about this replacing the need for marketing spend. The reality is that, bar freak occurrences, nobody is achieving 20 million views without marketing.

The iTunes download figure quoted in this thread is not accurate.

1) Professional hired spam got the youtube thing rolling as part of her "Fee". 2) It cost that family way more than 2 grand for this and 3) Fundamentally and most importantly the question is how does one generate real dollar revenue from youtube hits. Gaga's new video has had ten million fewer hits and her iTunes downloads are at something like 2 million (legitimately).

Apples and oranges here.

Chocolate Rain - 64 million You Tube views; virtually no sales.

The iTunes downloads may be inaccurate but still make interesting reading.
According to Billboard she has earned $24,900 (£15,274) in a week after selling "less than 40,000" downloads
with over 33 million views which is over 1% and this is just her American sales.
But what a lot of people miss her is this.
SHE IS CONVERTING video views into sales at a very good percentage.
If for example she only had 40,000 sales worldwide, that is still a very high percentage.
If you have ever done any Google or Youtube promotion which I have, you will find that
converting 1% of your video views into sales is a brilliant achievement.
You normally expect to get 0.01% - 0.30% CTR to your website and sales are even less than this.

I really don't get why people are so quick to play down this, can they not see the significance ?
This is a trend that is going upwards and there are many more people who are quietly making money
from Youtube without any of the fanfare and press.

What this means to the music industry especially independents is there is a genuine model that bypasses
the radio/tv route. Not saying this is not important but have a look at radio charts and you will see it is
overwhelmingly dominated by major label product. Radio is not playing independent content at all so
you either close up shop or hit the web and this is where the Rebecca Black experience comes in.

As for Chocolate Rain and other Youtube hits, my take on this is this.

Youtube is also a market in itself, like releasing on vinyl or releasing via Spotify or We7.

One should have a clear strategy when playing the Youtube game and that revolves around ads.
Get your heads out of the sand, sales are falling and apart from your Lady Gagas and Katy Perrys
making money from downloads and CDs is pretty tough going and if that is your only model well you won't have
a business especially if you are an indie. Radio won't play your music regardless of how good it is and
TV is even harder to crack with smaller playlists. You have to take the initiative and take things into your
own hands and one of these tools is online video views.

@GG I have not seen any evidence of the "professional hired spam" but that is truly a misleading slight actually.
If anything what they did was roll a Youtube campaign to get it to the forefront of people's eyes. According to
what I know about this case, they got as far as 4000 views which frankly costs nothing to get. Can cost as little as 1c a view
so $40.

Youtube partner payouts are:

$ 0.0033/1 view
$ 3/1,000 view
$33/ 10,000 views
$330/ 100,000 views
$3300/ 1,000,000 views

On top of this Youtube pays mechanicals, check with PRS for the details but I am not 100% on the actual figures.

I am sure Rebecca Black and her team would be knocking on Youtube's doors for a slice of the ad pie.

To generate real dollars from Youtube you need the following:

1. Enrol in the partner programme (hard unless you have thousands of views but Youtube might relax this)
2. Use an alternative method for monetising your videos (product placement, private deals, or even use another network)
3. For writers register with PRS or the local equivalent.
4. Have good itunes links from day one.
5. Have a good link to your website and have good ads there.

@Badgerbadgerbadger
It is really NOT rocket science and you answer your own question. The song has been panned by many people but it is a perfect
pop song. You are either great or totally shite and that's good pop. She has compelled the world to take a stand and that is what
you need. Do you think Lady Gaga would be where she is without all the nonsense that goes with her ? Publicity is an art and science.

I am afraid many people in the music industry won't recognise a model if they saw it but poo poo the Youtube/video model all you like
it is working wonders outside the music industry and many people are making significant amounts of dollars because they get the
balance right while we in the music industry debate about it.

I can't recall how many times I have explained how to do Youtube and online marketing without tears or going bankrupt.
Also Badger can we just clarify one point, marketing is about how you tell other people what you have. Of course you won't get ONE
view without marketing. I have never been against marketing but I have been all for marketing that brings you financial results regardless
of the outcome of your marketing strategy. IN other words monetised marketing. It is the ONLY way forward for music because the
dollar amounts for download makes competing in the Google PPC wars pointless. Who in their right mind will pay $1 a click for a keyword
when your item sells for $1 ?

My main argument centres around where you put your marketing dollars. Rather than invest $5000 in a plugger and PR to handle the media
put that in a Youtube campaign (done properly and fully monetised) and you can get your money back and make a tidy profit as well (i have
done this many times), and if like Rebecca Black you have a decent song or hit, your itunes sales will explode voila !

One other thing Badger, do the stats on music releases to hits and you will find that hits are always freak occurences as they are in
tiny minority of music releases even if we only use major label output. How many major label releases turn a profit ?
How many indie releases turn a profit ? Very little so if we compare all these big Youtube music hits with the right things you will find
the stats are pretty normal.

Cowell is interested in her now so let's wait and see what happens.

@JK Chocolate Rain 64 million views no sales maybe but we don't know that. Maybe it was not released on iTunes, I don't know. But
64 million views will net him $211,200. Not bad for no iTunes sales right ?

If his song converted at %1 he would get 640,000 sales $448000 minus Tunecore fee of $9.99

By the way the mechanicals will also earn around $200,000 for those views (anyone know any different ?) not to mention all the cover versions.

So as a writer it is good investment to pay a couple of thousands puttng your hit in front of peoples eyes and let them do the rest.

DJKZ wrote:
@JK Chocolate Rain 64 million views no sales maybe but we don't know that. Maybe it was not released on iTunes, I don't know. But
64 million views will net him $211,200. Not bad for no iTunes sales right ?
Assuming he was in the partner programme. I've tried to get in and been rejected as I've not met their targets. Therefore I effectively have to have 2 video sensations, 1 to get me in, the second to make the money. How many people do you know who have replicated a video's success?

The point I'm trying to make is that they have indeed hired a professional plugger spammer,.... Ark Music. I'm willing to bet like other companies I'm aware of they have a bank of interns sitting at computers with different IP addresses clicking away. Now that didn't get her to 30 million but it got the ball rolling. Not rocket science. Call it what you want but that is what they did. They plugged it. I expect the public to be duped DJKZ, but not insiders. Cmon man.

The only reason it took off is kids checking out how dreadfully bad the recording and performance are, forget the song for sake of this argument.

I saw her sing on Leno last night.......she can't sing/has no charisma (she's just an average nice kid), and if Cowell is interested it's because of the numbers and the story. They'll need more than auto-tune to make a real record with this kid.

Its novelty. Its the hula-hoop, and if they make a million for her college fund good for them....but no one has invented the next hula-hoop have they?

If I wrote the next "God Only Knows" (THE perfect pop song)....would it get 30 million hits?

GG sorry to say this but you really do NOT know how the internet works if you think that sitting down with
a bank of interns with different IP addresses is going to get you anywhere. For a start no one in their right mind
who wants to game Youtube is going to use actual human beings to do it and spend how much dollars ? or do you think
these interns are going to do it for free ? If you want to game Youtube you use BOTS to do that using proxy servers ok.
The public may be duped but you have no evidence that they did that so out it goes.

It is also totally unnecessary to use "black hat" techniques with Youtube when you can do legitimate promotion on Youtube
or other sites using real IP addresses with real people for a reasonable price. Gaming Youtube will get your account banned
and your views chalked off and the bloggers will 'out' you. Sandi Thom anyone ?

Look whatever the reasons why people LOOKED at the video, that is neither here nor there. Many people look at Lady Gaga for
reasons other than her music but then others see it and buy the music.
The key point is that at least 1% of them bought the damn thing or are you suggesting Ark hyped iTunes as well ? Gee I despair sometimes.

No one is proclaiming Rebecca Black as the next Aretha, she is 13 years old FFS ! What were you expecting ? A seasoned
performer ? How many 13 year olds do you know who fit that description ?

Who cares if it's a novelty song, like 99% of JK's content. So what ! Are novelty songs less than any other pop song in this context ? No !

If you wrote the next "God Only Knows" will it get 30 million hits ? Probably not because that's not how it works sadly. But then again it depends how you present it.

It's a balance between artist, style, song, media and what else have you and I expect a seasoned producer like you to know this.

We are all looking to the stars for a new model to drop out of the sky but it ain't and it is here already.
We either take advantage of it or dream our lives away thinking we are going to ever get major label support by the so called
gatekeepers. The only people who tell you this are the pluggers and PR people and of course they charge you an arm and a leg and make all sorts of excuses when it does not work. Look at the reality man. Radio charts dominated by the majors. Airplay is denied to independent for various
reasons and I would rather put my money into something that can give me more accurate results.

KZ - I'd love to think you are right; as you know I've constructed my own "new model", slightly along your lines (well over 2 million views for my combined You Tube videos) but using a website (www.VilePervert.com) to promote my music in a full length movie with almost 60,000 views for the 96 minute film so far.
Yes; it has boosted our iTunes sales; we get a decent five figure sum every royalty statement.
Yes; it spreads enthusiasm through word of mouth.
But we still haven't cracked it - neither, I'm sure you'll admit, have you. It may be we simply haven't yet found a genuine smash or a real star.
The freaky multi view videos do owe more to visual weirdness or bad sounds than to enthusiasm for great or catchy music; and the eye tires long before the ear does so unfortunately a dozen views replace a sale and a hundred plays.
I think that is the problem. Visual impact is greater but tends not to inspire sales; radio and clubs inspired sales and multiple listens.

I think globally we also have to accept that there is less money out there anyway. Newbies at Midem are often amazed by the opportunities; old hands think back the nineties and are underwhelmed. It's a generational thing. The music biz is nothing like it used to be.

DJKZ does have a clear idea of monetisation. But obviously it supplements income rather than opening up a whole new pot of solid gold. And that is very definitely the takeaay: the new model means exploiting more mini-streams. Tiring, perhaps, but a buck's a buck.

I think JK you hit the nail right on the head in terms of maybe we haven't found a genuine smash or a real star but
that is using the model and not the model itself.
For me the model is about promoting music in the same way other products are promoted. In other words you control
how people hear your content, when and the cost. It is no longer down to the powers that be who often ain't interested
in your content until its already broken by someone else which is increasingly difficult as they are less daring people in
radio these days.

But I am afraid having spoken to many kids and observed their habits, burning CDs, Ipod downloads and swapping is so rife
that unless there is a compelling reason to buy, they won't so all I am about is trying to create a system that makes it
worthwhile and so far I can't see anything else emerging. Sales of downloads have plateaued and will begin to fall. Overall
music sales is declining. We are on a plane without gas and the ground is getting closer. But all is not lost and the one
lesson I learned from the Rebecca Black story is "there is a market for everything" you just need to see what it is.

It's a positive thing even though it is a brave new world but I imagine publishers had the same palpitations when radio emerged
and also when record player became popular.

@Michael. You have wise words there Michael the business is very different but not just the business, people are very different
the landscape is different but opportunities aboud aplenty
Also Michael monetising marketing will become the staple food for artists with sales being a bonus. The law of supply and demand
will determine this. As long as videos convert to clicks with a decent CTR which they are at the moment then ad rates will go up
and the income for content producers will also rise. This isn't slowing down at the moment but who knows what will happen tomorrow.

It is my current experience that kids believe recorded music is free, and that they don't have to spend for it.
The balance between art and commerce is the age old pull apart of producing records. As far as this discussion do we want the golden egg or the golden goose?

This is a very relevant and interesting thread that goes deeper than the particular video that started it.

...just to clarify, my experience with music interns is that they do not get paid, their pay is getting exposed to the industry and being educated from that, and or getting studio time during off peak hours.

I'm aware that many organizations including labels hire teams (either pro pr/ or interns) to go on various important targeted message boards and post what are essentially false positive posts about an act posing as teenagers. I don't think bots can do that. I know one screwball production company that has 6-8 kids there doing this for several hours a day on so called music "Marketing internships". This is the reality of that and what part of my previous blurb was based on.

DJKZ you've said some very informative things.

I do believe Youtube or its next incarnation is part of the answer going forward. I'm in mainstream pop music so how do I break a quality act that puts asses in seats using this way. Is it, build it and they will come? Will that market pay for it? I honestly don't know at this moment. I do believe there is huge opportunity at this point in time.

Thanks DJKZ for the financial information about YouTube earnings you provided in another thread last week.

I've got two more questions (at the moment):

Are you sure, that YouTube is paying royalties for performances (to publishers & the owners of the sound recording) for videos uploaded by someone who is a member of the partnership programme?

Is there a minimum payout?

Yes DJ You Tube does pay partnership members - I know this from my Sons of Admirals friends - but sadly this encourages and allows minimal ambition for fairly small return. So partners make a few thousand a year which pays for them to continue making amusing but superficial videos and sucks the ambition to develop out of them.