Hmmmm. JK in the interest of fairness please publish this.

I have mixed feelings about this revelation but it appears that many leading Youtubers including Alex Day
have been gaming the system. Now I know some on this board will be horrified to learn this about darling Alex
(including I), may I stress that it is possible that Alex is oblivious to this. Also many big hitters including
the Kony video have all been at it as well as big Youtubers such as Ray William Johnson and Jenna Marbles.

Now how does this work. Well they are all exploiting a Youtube bug where mobile views can be manipulated easily.
In fact if you want to know if a video has been gamed then watch out for ones where the comments and likes outstrip
the actual video views. This is a clear indication of black hat techniques at work. This of course is cheating but
the practice is so ingrained that it is doubtful that anyone can compete without it. So next time you hear someone
talk about how quick they have had Youtube views, remember all is not as it seems and the devil is in the detail.

I am opening the floor to Alex Day (and his web backers) to explain themselves and tell us how come they have racked
up so many mobile views when we all know that mobile views are nowhere near PC views in reality. For more information
read this

clevercrunch.com/2012/03/internet/youtub...magicviews-and-more.

I'm sure Alex is far too busy to bother J&B - I know I've seen many times comments and likes outstrip the views for hours and sometimes days - the Views counter simply lags behind the others.

JK2006 wrote:
I'm sure Alex is far too busy to bother J&B - I know I've seen many times comments and likes outstrip the views for hours and sometimes days - the Views counter simply lags behind the others.I think you'll find that's the beauty of a "bot", you kick it off and leave it running.

I've also noticed this J&B and the more I look at Youtube hits the more apparent it becomes.

I don't condone people playing the system to get their head above the parapet and be noticed, especially when Youtube is so overcrowded. But it does make you wonder what gems have been muscled out by absolute tosh. The baby one springs to mind:



100 million mobile views.... really? I don't buy it.

Disappointing if Alex is doing this.

The "New Model" using "Old Model" sales returns manipulation tactics methinks. Don't know (or care) if Alex Day is doing this but the fact it is being done should surprise nobody. If Youtube pay based on number of views people will find ways of increasing those number of views.

Blue Boy wrote:
The "New Model" using "Old Model" sales returns manipulation tactics methinks. Don't know (or care) if Alex Day is doing this but the fact it is being done should surprise nobody. If Youtube pay based on number of views people will find ways of increasing those number of views.
In days gone by getting your single into the charts meant you were propelled into the public eye where either:

A: You gained a following which you could then build on.
B: You had your 1 hit wonder and subsequently disappeared due to lack on interest.

Rebecca Black scored an incredible "internet hit" with "Friday" which went truly global and viral. Her follow up video wouldn't need to employ these tactics, would it?

Pomplamoose are apparently a "Youtube sensation" with an enormous following and doing rather nicely making a living off of Youtube. Surely they don't need to use these tactics?

As we know Alex Day scored a massive Christmas hit with "Forever Young", surely his follow up wouldn't need to employ these tactics?

But it would appear that they all do. Do they all fall into category "B" or is there another reason?

This entire thread strikes me as pointless and meaningless actually. There may well be ways of "hyping" views - sadly I haven't discovered it and those I work with - Alex, Charlie, Tommy - don't need to (they have loads of followers because they make good videos). Like Stephen Fry on Twitter - he's popular because people follow him. End of story.

"This entire thread strikes me as pointless and meaningless....End of story"

If anyone seriously wants to embrace new technology they should be as knowledgeable as possible about the medium. The amount of discussion about new music and new trends on this board is very limited so I welcome it when new topics are aired especially when it is a topic I hadn't encountered before. Although the original post mentioned Alex Day I don't believe this issue has anything to do with what he or his fans are doing.

JK, You often talk about a filter, for a lot of people that filter is popularity so having a lot of Youtube hits is important and it should be a trusted measure. I doubt if the use of bots will be employed by new acts but Youtube is now a very important way of discovering new music so anything that impacts that should be important to people that read this board.

Er JK can you post my last reply regarding this very important subject.

If you want to know more about the mobile botting and why people do it then have a gander at this.
But if you can't be bothered let me summarise.

Youtube does not pay mobile views nor can they properly trace the source of mobile phone botting thanks to their over reliance on Flash.
NO partner will be banned for botting, not least the big boys because guess what? They have crossed the point of no return whereby Youtube
needs them to make money so they won't ban them for mobile view botting.
Botting mobile views boosts your SERPs count and makes your video visible which is where the real money is.
Botting can be done by anyone. Youtube have to be able to prove you gamed your own video to ban you which is nigh on impossible with mobile
views as there is NO tracking available.
A smart person will set up a network of "arms length" minions to do the botting for them. Imagine passionate fans who watch the video
multiple times to boost its view count.
Botting Youtube with mobile views is so easy a 2 year old could do it. No special software is required just someone who has time to refresh
the video. Software automates and scales it upwards like a G6.

The most important part of this is:

YOUR YOUTUBE VIDEO DOES NOT HAVE TO BE GOOD TO BE A HIT. JUST EITHER BRILLIANT OR SO BAD PEOPLE HAVE TO HATE ON YOU.
CONTENT IS NOT KING ON YOUTUBE BECAUSE RUBBISH IS JUST AS GOOD AS GREAT STUFF. ONCE
PEOPLE SEE IT THEY WILL COMMENT GOOD OR BAD. DO YOU NEED ANY OTHER MOTIVE FOR BOTTING?

More information below and if you want to bot then fair play to you just know the facts and that's what this thread is for.
It will give everyone a fighting chance especially as they realise that the big boys on Youtube are botting like ****. There is
not one who isn't, even darling Alex (or most likely the clever team behind his Youtube).

www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/youtu...be-mobile-views.html

Well said BB.
The fact is Alex Day's video has been botted using the mobile view exploit.
Did Alex personally do it? I don't know. Does it make Alex Day evil? Of course NOT.
Does it give Alex an unfair advantage of course it does.
It gives those in the know an unfair advantage hence my posting it. Not so we can hate
on Alex as I like him but so we can take JK's claims with a pinch of salt and more importantly
so that we can go and do likewise too.
If Youtube are silly enough to allow their system to be easily gamed then we must play along.
If we don't some other cat will do and you will see random videos of babies crying in cars with
100,000,000 views earning lots of money instead of our wonderful music which is struggling with 100
views because we naively think that people like Alex just put it online and then it magically grew.
Alex does not play live so the addition of new fans is entirely online. This makes it damned important
to know how he did it. But I am NOT knocking Alex for doing it. It is now at the stage whereby you
can't even get a look in without doing it.

Also BB you are right. Youtube is a filter in itself and we look at the videos of the day, and all
the other "awards" as an arbiter of popularity and quality. If these are all botted or up there due
to advertisements then this is PAYOLA in a different name. That is fine after all Payola brought us
Motown and other forms of black music, didn't it JK? Without payola there would be no Jackson Five,
no Michael Jackson, no Thriller so payola has its good points. BUT let us not continue to kid ourselves
about this so called FILTER which is and has always been corrupt.

PS: Thanks Tipsheet for allowing my post through.

Blue Boy wrote:
Although the original post mentioned Alex Day I don't believe this issue has anything to do with what he or his fans are doing.

Stats from Lady Godiva
======================
Related video - Warehouses Can Be Fun! 8,337
Related video - Carrie The Great 34,260
Mobile device 267,623
Subscriber module 99,811
YouTube search - lady godiva 16,823
Twitter.com 11,165
YouTube search - nerimon 7,411
Facebook.com 7,077
YouTube search - lady godiva alex day 6,214

Really Blue Boy? Really?

Well you feel free to work your music however you want to and we'll go on doing it the good old fashioned way - making great and popular sounds and trying to break them.

Mind you, I wish the Lady Godiva bot worked as well as the Forever Yours bot (4 million views) - wonder why on earth we didn't use it (Doh).

Interesting stats there SOAIC.
The great thing about the internet is that you can easily account for things.
As the stats show the mobile views are very high it raises one important question.
HOW THE EFF DID IT GET THAT HIGH?

You see Alex has 500,000+ subscribers so naturally an email would be the initial
method of marketing. These people would then respond via Youtube which would appear
as a different item in the stat.

But the mobile views are high without anything telling us how they came about.
Do you want to explain this JK or will you plead the 5th on it?

If you are unwilling to explain it I can do it for you. It is called mobile views bot.
You have clearly gamed Youtube and fair play to you for doing it. I have nothing against
Alex Day so don't take it personally but we are looking at openness and honesty so if
you can explain how your mobile views are so high and how did all the mobile people hear
about the song? Don't forget we had a running commentary from you when it all kicked off
so we know these views happened pretty quickly. If you did an organic mailout your actual
stats would show a different entry as Youtube would mention it came from a Youtube email.

Also Forever Yours has its stats disabled so if you want to play fair then why not post
the stats here so we can all see.

It is also very curious that Forever Yours received 4 million views and Lady Godiva
received 687,000. JK explain.

If the Forever Yours were all genuine views then why the huge drop in views?
Is it because most of the views came from non-fans?
Or could it be that Youtube have started to chalk off the mobile views from videos?
which is what I have heard has happened.

The answer is simple J&B - no bots; no hype; simply hoping fans spread the word enough to get sales; we'll end at 50,000 sold globally on Godiva - less than half of Forever Yours. Still pretty good; Alex will get another big royalty cheque - You Tube built support for the track which was obviously not as popular as Forever Yours but more or less views on the counter wouldn't have made any difference; we wanted real views to get real sales - can't understand why we should have bothered to get fake counts? What's the point? How would it have increased sales? Only real views boost sales, don't they? This entire thread passes me by.

Should we have spent £1000 or whatever to get 10 million views and not one single extra sale? Why?

If one of your wonderful BOTS provoked a hundred thousand sales I'd use it like a shot. But I can't understand why we'd be wasting money or time faking views when we have genuine views from genuine fans who buy genuine copies of the tracks. Nobody would be inspired to buy it if it had 300,000 views instead of 700,000 views, would they? Would radio have climbed all over it if we'd managed 4 million views (it didn't help Forever Yours get airplay)?

Have I missed something? We're not in the "get Alex 80 million views biting a finger" game. Why would we bother? We want sales, downloads, popularity - not fake figures. Who cares whether millions watch it (like Chocolate Rain and Miss Black) if they don't buy the track?

JK thanks for replying and fair play to you for doing so but you have
made at least one major error in your reply.

You are pretty ignorant about the facts of Rebecca Black and her song Friday.

For your information Rebecca Black sold over 96,000 downloads of Friday.
So you are wrong about her NOT selling. I don't know about Chocolate Rain
but Rebecca Black was a turning point as far as Youtube is concerned and that is because
she made real money from it and a lot of it at that. 100,000 sales and at least $300,000
from the 166 million views from Youtube. Now that dwarfs Alex Day's cheque doesn't it?

Record labels are all over Youtube, gaming it on a daily basis JK and you
are appearing as if you don't know this goes on. I don't know whether you are pretending
or not but have a look at even Lady Gaga's Vevo channel and you will see videos in the 100s
of millions and mobile views are very high. Cross over to her official channel and its a different
story. The videos barely get a million views.

As to why boost the video views artificially. It is all about trending and front
page positions which is where the real views begin to kick in.

Read the below article which goes into detail about this

nofilmschool.com/2010/12/how-to-cheat-youtube/

A million views will cost in the region of $12,000 (according to this article)
and at least $10,000 if you used Youtube promoted videos as a more legit version of
the same. Youtube views are up for sale FACT and one of the telltale signs of botting
is the high amount of mobile views above everything else and the reason for this JK
is that YOutube is not tracking them effectively so you could easily have your iphone
on autorefresh boosting the count.

Yes Alex has real view and yes Alex has real sales but Alex also has highly suspicious
mobile views as well. So if Alex uses a bot to get a million views on day one, at a cost of 10k
he will trend so much so that those who had never heard of him will all of a sudden see him and watch his
video and as Rebecca Black has proved, no matter how bad or good your music is (as long as it appears
professionally produced) you WILL sell a few. Now add to this all the remixes sold, the sheep factor
and the resulting sales you work it out and tell me if it isn't money well spent.

But please don't try and play the expert when it comes to the internet
because there are savvier people online who know about this than you do.
Finally let me recap Rebecca Black sold a lot of units in the region of Alex Day and she did
not have a top ten record. Youtube converts to sales which is why gaming YOutube is now
so important that we can't ignore it. If everyone is doing it then I think we have a right
to know what they are doing and to either stop them (if that is possible) or join them
because without doing so we are not even getting on the runway.

Once again people read this article for a more in depth look at the reasons and methodology of
gaming Youtube views.

nofilmschool.com/2010/12/how-to-cheat-youtube/

Well done to Alex for his sales. This is not an anti Alex Day post but more an expose on
Youtube marketing, tips and tricks etc

PS: please fix this anti spam bug. You have a nice large cheque from Amazon so you can afford
to fix your site JK lol

Well it sounds like typical loser major label thinking to me J&B so I won't be wasting my money or advising Alex to waste his on that.

As for mobile views, watching young people on the street I wouldn't be at all surprised if half Alex's views came from mobiles. Can't understand it myself - tinny little things - but the kids seem glued to them.

OK, I've done some investigation into this and here are my findings. BTW, J&B please calm down, your posts can be so rude and insulting, this is a discussion not a witch hunt.

You don't need to buy mobile views and you don't need to sit with your iPhone permanently refreshing.

A bot is a piece of software which runs on a PC and tricks Youtube into thinking the views are coming from multiple mobiles.

- It takes no money, you can download a bot for free.
- It takes none of your own time to rack up the views as you leave the bot running doing it for you.
- The surge in views causes the video to be flagged as popular by Youtube's systems and therefore placed high on a chart/recommendations list/front page etc. which generates the real views.
- Real views generate the income.
- Media take notice and report on the video believing it's an internet success story.
- Radio playlist it believing it's popular.
- Major labels get excited.

Etc. etc. etc. etc.

Mobile views of videos account for a very small percentage and this includes young people. To prove this, have a look at a recent major music success story adored primarily by the younger generation:



The mobile views are so negligible they are not even listed in the stats.

But look at Youtube's most watched videos today, "Tulisa Talks", "Kelly Brooks Perfect Pair", "Wayne Rooney breaks childs arm with free kick", "New iPatch iPhone mod"….. the list goes on. They're all at it.

It's quite apparent that it's an integral part of promotion on Youtube, if you're not doing it you're not going to get noticed.

I'm not a fan of these kind of tactics but I don't blame anyone who is using them right now. Along with the complete crap, real talent is being forced to use it just to level the playing field.

My only worry had I have used it myself would be if this becomes big news the evidence is right there below your video.

Bobby

First of all I apologise to anyone who was offended by my posts. I do not intend to be rude
but I am exhausted by the constant misinformation on this board. It seems some people either
deliberately or otherwise want to try and discredit the online sensations that break outside of
the select few in the "industry". This is deja vu as this happened in the dance era (dismissed as
a passing fad) or laughably described as "music for clubs and not for the airwaves".

Thanks for posting the Justin Bieber link now I would say from the stats there is no mobile view
botting going on there and the views are genuine and especially for the demographic. Before anyone
can say that demographic don't own phones, just through that nonsensical idea out of your head.
Every 9-13 year old (typical Bieber fans) have phones. Thanks for the education about bots.

I must admit I didn't even know they existed until recently when Youtube allegedly patched it.
But you are quite right. I think I better get me one of them bots. If you can't beat them well join them.

I expect BABY was before mass use of mobiles kicked in - Boyfriend will have millions of mobiles.

I'd guess.

Alex and Charlie had as many views three years ago as they do now.

can i just reiterate, the music is shit.

expert in naff one hit wonders champions naff one hit wonders. (yes i know it is two,the world has moved on)

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

You're quite right de-caf and I'm sure Genesis would agree with you as well as those one hit wonders 10cc and The Bay City Rollers (well I only produced one of their hits) and of course I myself only had Moon... apart from Paloma, It's Good News Week, Johnny Reggae....

God I wish I'd discovered something like The Rocky Horror Show.

Never mind, there's always One Hit Abba to fall back on.

You need some caffeine before you join the real world but that might stop you sleeping zzzzzzzzz