and the UMG is already sniffing around nipper

It's been a walking disaster area for years; as most other retailers of music became - and, sadly, I started it.

When I realised that shops would sell singles provided FREE to them ahead of normal copies (I was battling Warners on Una Paloma Blanca) - making 100% profit and thus getting a higher chart placing - I sent out a free box to the 50 shops selling singles outside the Top 50 which contributed to the BMRB Official chart.

It worked. We ended up Top 5 - George Baker only made Top 10.

But one effect was that everyone started Sale or Return and retailers lost interest in customer demand.

I reckon HMV will survive. It will probably be a case of closing down 85% of shops and keeping a few open like the Oxford Street branch - apparently some of them do a pretty good trade, but struggle to prop up the lesser performers.

JK2006 wrote:
It's been a walking disaster area for years; as most other retailers of music became - and, sadly, I started it.

When I realised that shops would sell singles provided FREE to them ahead of normal copies (I was battling Warners on Una Paloma Blanca) - making 100% profit and thus getting a higher chart placing - I sent out a free box to the 50 shops selling singles outside the Top 50 which contributed to the BMRB Official chart.

It worked. We ended up Top 5 - George Baker only made Top 10.

But one effect was that everyone started Sale or Return and retailers lost interest in customer demand.



I agree that HMV has been making bad decisions for many years. Sales terms may have been responsible for the demise of Tower, Virgin and many other retailers but in my opinion the nail in HMV's coffin came from Amazon.co.uk and to a lesser extent Play.com. For a few years now consumers have been browsing in HMV but making the purchase online and with smart phones you can price compare while in the store and place your order with an online supplier and get the goods the next day. The high cost of rates, wages, rent, heating etc means that a large operation like HMV could never survive that pressure. The price that record companies sold CD's 30 years ago was £7.29, today that is closer to the retail price than the dealer price.

If HMV had been more aggressive online 10 years ago and linked that to a in store customer experience they maybe could have survived.

No BB: like the BPI (see other thread) it needed a total rethink in music retail. What could shops provide that online and mail order couldn't? From pricing to knowledge, enthusiasm, packaging, posters, value-for-money, discounts on gig tickets, signings, meetings... bad, weak executives lacking in ideas; that's what went wrong with retail, labels, publishers, BPI - the lot.

JK2006 wrote:
No BB: like the BPI (see other thread) it needed a total rethink in music retail. What could shops provide that online and mail order couldn't? From pricing to knowledge, enthusiasm, packaging, posters, value-for-money, discounts on gig tickets, signings, meetings... bad, weak executives lacking in ideas; that's what went wrong with retail, labels, publishers, BPI - the lot.

My comment about linking the online presence to an in store customer experience was along the same lines as your thoughts.

I was working with digital distribution companies in the late 1990's, early 2000's and it wasn't just about a lack of ideas. Often there were to many ideas and the problem was that too many uneconomical decisions were taken and not enough focus on a single strategy. Ultimately you are right, the problem was bad/weak executives but having been there myself I can tell you it wasn't easy identifying the good ideas from the bad.

This story will be interesting to follow. Hilco UK has done a great job with HMV Canada, and closed very few stores. (Their flagship Vancouver store probably being the most high profile one that shuttered). Once reduced of debt - and the worst performing stores - HMV UK should have a short to medium term profitable future. I wonder if Universal Music are interested? HMV has been owned by a record company (EMI) for most of its life until it floated off in the last decade. Universal are reported to be exposed to the tune of up to £150 million pounds that they inherited when the bought EMI last year. Universal Music, along with the other record, video and games manufacturers would be seriously damaged without HMV. I hope that the majority of this once great business is saved, and given an opportunity to change to meet today’s environment - which for entertainment is still heavily weighted to physical product.

A new owner could introduce Instore CD/DVD Burning, where you can go into an HMV store and get virtually any CD DVD on demand in a physical format with original packaging. Tesco are trialing this, but with two fundemental flaws. One, they've installed expensive self-service kiosks. (No, you put out dummy cases and/or have have a catalogue (electronic) at the counter.) Two, they catalogue is VERY limited. It only works if there is an extensive range available - Just like Home Delivery and Digital.

A smaller estate, debt free/reduced could certainly make HMV work - but it requires imagination!

I agree that HMV should have been better at moving with the times. I never buy CD's anymore only vinyl so it's resurgence has been fine for me but my local HMV never sells vinyl.

With a lot of people downloading from Apple and Amazon I never understood why HMV didn't have CD sized cards that either gave you a code to download an album once at home or the oppotunity to have it put on the mp3 player of your choice whilst instore. You can't just wander around and flick through sleeves at itunes or Amazon like you can in a real shop.

Whilst I feel sympathy for the poor sods losing their jobs at HMV I can't understand all this fake sadness at their demise. They don't stock what you want at the price you want so why use them? Everybody used to get their milk delivered daily but most don't nowadays, that's called progress.
I will be sad if David's Records in Letchworth ever closes as that's one of the few places I can still get brand new vinyl!

CDs now retail for what was once the dealer price about 10 years ago - add that to reduce sales (about 50% of what they were a decade ago) - and you have a business model doomed to failure.

They embraced the internet - but did not want it to fare too well, otherwise it might hit the shops !!! - and moved into tech gear very late.

Added to that long opening hours (see my post on Shopping Lunacy on the other board), and increased costs, and you have a recipe for disaster.

In fact ... HMV has only lasted this long because it is so in debt to the banks, otherwise the plug would have been pulled much much sooner.

It gets worse for Nipper - Tesco's want him for a burger.

Dixie, I remember seeing in-store jukebox burners at Midem about 15 years ago. I'm not sure what has changed to make them suddenly of more interest. With Spotify, Deezer (and the p2p networks), availability is no longer the issue.

Maybe a better jukebox with 3D printing or something. But the bare concept doesn't stand a chance, IMHO.

As concerts remain the one stable source of income, I'd be more tempted by a store-in-venue hook-up for major tours. Going to see Paul McCartney live? Once there, would you be interested in buying deluxe re-releases of other legacy artists (with a credit card to boost the spontaneous purchases)? There is potential in that.

Michael,I saw CD burners around the same time, run by a company called VMS. Very different to what Tesco has today - and I don't think Tesco has it right, BUT the quality is as good as a factory copy today. (Not the case 15 years ago). Tesco has shiny self-selection kiosks. Very esxpensive and not required. The idea would, in my opinion, would be all "back room based". (Which means you could use off the shelf kit for most of it. The store could produce inlay cards for display, and should an artist become popular suddenly, be able to create all of the back catalogue. Singles could be produced on demand too. BUT, and here's the current sticking point that needs sorting. The stores need access to EVERYTHING! (Or at least everything that I-Tunes or Amazon could supply. There are lots of people who still want physical, but can't get what they want instantly. If you knew you could pick up vertually any CD with its original packaging from you local HMV, (at a competitive price) more people would go there.

On another issue. Deloittes are shooting the brand (HMV) in the foot by not accepting HMV Gift Cards. (Even if they made it conditional on the card value not exceeding 50% of the total transaction, at least they'd be showing willing/compassion!).

Aside from most kids now buying music as downloads straight onto devices - and given the state of the singles chart, often buying the same track tow or three times over a long period of time - another nail in the coffin has been the rise of Spotify & its competitors.
People are subscribing to those and not bothering to purchase music. Forget 'sound quality' and other such folly, when a small monthly subscription to millions of tracks people just aren't interested in buying music unless they're old fashioned or dedicated collectors

The biggest problem for the music industry has been its obsession with kids. This is the single most disastrous policy that means the industry is dead and quite rightly. Now I know sales are growing but profits are not. Stop focusing on kids. Everyone is into music but not everyone has the means or the desire to pay for it. Kids have limited money and what money they have they will spend on GAMES, CLOTHES and physical products with value such as mobile phones, skateboards etc.

Labels are investing too much money on acts with limited appeal even though the big sellers like Adele and Gotye appeal to older fans as well as young ones. MOR sells the most music but millions get spent on Cheryl Cole and her pseudo R&B/pop pap. I love all music and even my kids appreciate OLD music which they associate with quality. As long as the industry obsesses with Kesha and her ilk the decline will gain momentum.

Furthermore everyone should read Lefsetz recent posts. I know he is a loudmouth self promoting Yank with the attitude to match but even a broken clock is right twice. He is spot on for the future of labels and artists.
I would add that as artists, we assemble our team of two or three which can include an old school mentor and there are plenty around. The way to break your music is clear and simple. GET RID OF OLD SCHOOL BUSINESS PRACTICES such as release dates, PR campaigns and the like. Instead BLOG and release your music as part of that narrative. Tweet about everything and stalk your media peeps via such media. Oil the wheels with affordable online ads at 1000 a time using Facebook and Twitter and write heaps. When you have a hit it will blow up big time.

Mitch Miller (1958 or 59):
„You [DJs] carefully built yourself into the monarchs of radio and abdicated your programming to the corner record shop, to the eight to 14-year-olds. (...) I’m not asking you to snuff the musical life of these kids (...) I’m asking you to take radio away from the lists and give it back to the people. I’m asking you to give up lazy programming - to play music for every age group and taste“.