In The Know wrote:
Sadly the facts - that you cannot live beyond your means, and if your outgoings (because of Labour's debt) exceed your income you have to borrow - are completely beyond the understanding of some people.

(Let's hope they don't vote !!!)


I disagree. If your outgoings exceed your income you have to go without. Borrowing makes things worse.

A trillion (plus) is an awful lot of interest, in only 7 years...

honey!oh sugar sugar. wrote:
Borrowing makes things worse.

Prudent borrowing is fine - most people with mortgages would agree.

But having to add your overdraft (deficit) to your mortgage (debt) every year is imprudent, to say the least.

Tory governments have had to do it now, for over 30 years! Labour have not...

I'm 100% with honey; I have never borrowed a penny and never will.

My friends and I own a few properties, which in London, are increasing in value at about 10%.

We borrow 50% from the bank to buy investment/rental units (residential and commercial).

The yield in SW1 and Canary Wharf is roughly 15/20% p a; call it borrowing or investment - but it's a lot better than getting 1% from the bank!


If you haven't borrowed - in the right circumstances - you need a new accountant/financial adviser.

As your ROI is probably too low...

honey!oh sugar sugar. wrote:
I disagree. If your outgoings exceed your income you have to go without. Borrowing makes things worse.

Agree entirely, honey! ... but we are talking about UK Plc here not your personal finances.

Austerity has cut the debt by appx half ... if we cut it all (in one go) many pensions etc would not be paid and millions of jobs would disappear.

The UK has not "made a profit" for over a decade - yet still spends.

In The Know wrote:
honey!oh sugar sugar. wrote:
I disagree. If your outgoings exceed your income you have to go without. Borrowing makes things worse.

Agree entirely, honey! ... but we are talking about UK Plc here not your personal finances.

Austerity has cut the debt by appx half ... if we cut it all (in one go) many pensions etc would not be paid and millions of jobs would disappear.

The UK has not "made a profit" for over a decade - yet still spends.


P1...we know this

P2...deficit*

P3...over 30 years* - under the Tories

Rather like in other matters I blame both parties (all three parties). A change in attitude is needed and I don't expect Corbyn's Labour to change it. He'd borrow like the others - instead of reconstructing and adapting (which would need loss of jobs or, rather, retraining and changing of jobs). But I think Corbyn has a different approach and none of the past 30 years has worked, although the coalition was not bad.

Spee wrote:
In The Know wrote:
honey!oh sugar sugar. wrote:
I disagree. If your outgoings exceed your income you have to go without. Borrowing makes things worse.

Agree entirely, honey! ... but we are talking about UK Plc here not your personal finances.

Austerity has cut the debt by appx half ... if we cut it all (in one go) many pensions etc would not be paid and millions of jobs would disappear.

The UK has not "made a profit" for over a decade - yet still spends.


P1...we know this

P2...deficit*

P3...over 30 years* - under the Tories





Over 36* years!

They don't the meaning of 'surplus'

And are obviously incapable of producing one

Perhaps one would like to explain HOW the borrowing has gone up (with every government department cutting spending year on year) then ???

That should be a good laugh .... lol !

You don't know - after spouting rubbish for years!¿

£2,000,000,000,000 is the National Debt - the majority borrowed by the Tories, since 2010.

Factual debate/disputing links/evidence would help.

However, I can't see many posts on that - except the usual acute bias¡


'lol'

In The Know wrote:
Perhaps one would like to explain HOW the borrowing has gone up (with every government department cutting spending year on year) then ???

That should be a good laugh .... lol !

Can't explain it ??

Its obvious - to everyone - that you haven't got a clue !

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39897498

www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk


Yes - this includes the deficit reductions

So what happens when the government spends more than it takes in?

Well, it borrows and that borrowing is added to the overall debt pile.

from - www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39897498

He hasn't got a clue, has he??? lol !

So what are we all agreeing here? That it is wrong to borrow more and more, as future generations will have to pay? And that we ought, as a country, to find better ways of raising money? And that all past governments (with the possible exception of the coalition) are responsible for raising and not cutting debt?

What better way can there be? Labour (Real Labour as opposed to "New" Labour) says raise taxes slightly on big corporations and the wealthy. Not by a lot - not so much as to frighten them away - but a couple of percent.

Can't anybody see that makes some sense?

In The Know wrote:
So what happens when the government spends more than it takes in?

Well, it borrows and that borrowing is added to the overall debt pile.

from - www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39897498

He hasn't got a clue, has he??? lol !

Same link - which doesn't even mention the £2T Debt

ITK is unable to recognise that the Tories have more than doubled the Debt - by £1T (£1,000,000,000,000) in only 7 years


NEVER before - every Labour government together, borrowed a small fraction. And produced a budget surplus (!) - something the Tories couldn't do for slmost 40 years...

Can anyone confirm this fact, for ITK - who is unable to google - what is a matter of public record¿


Putting it so simply, our National Debt is twice what it was 7 years ago

So easy to confirm - or ignore...

What is clear (to those who want to understand) is that Labour left HUGE debts which we now have to repay.

Labour still talks abour borrowing more (talk of £22 BILLION at the last election !) - but this will only increase our debt burden in future (and there is absolutely no guarantee that the investment would actually produce any benefit. Remember Labour's millions spent on IT projects? - all scrapped?)

Debt interest is currently £41 billion a year (more than the entire healst wages budget) and it will continue forever until we start to repay the debt ... and we can only do that by cutting our spending to less than our income.

"There's no money left" said the outgoing Labour Treasury Minister (in 2010) in his famous note - the only true word a Labour politician has ever said !

Still ignoring/unable to mention the £2T National Debt!

Here's another fact; the Debt grew by £91.5 billion last year.

That's by £250 million EVERY DAY...



Why try to defend (albeit badly) gross incompetence?

No previous UK government has borrowed anything like this one¡

Significantly, more borrowing is projected...

STILL doesn't understand !
Poor little thing !
Do let us know where you bank - and we'll make sure we don't !

Maybe this page - from 2010 may help?

It points out all the previous election promises made by Labour (in 2005) that they failed to deliver on !

It also mentions that the debt (by Labour's own figures) was heading for 1.4 trillion !

Meanwhile, net debt is soaring – and could hit £1.4 trillion over the next five years according to the government’s own figures.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7...nifesto-pledges.html

(to help the simple minded they have put that quote just under the "Related Articles" heading - so they might be able to find it !!!!!)

Labour left Britain broke - and we've been borrowing every single month ever since - just to make up their interest payments !

2010?

When the Debt was £900b!

Now 7 years later, it's over twice that.

One doesn't have to wonder, too much, who did the borrowing...



'lol'