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TOPIC: Was Hitler a Zionist?
#160425
Was Hitler a Zionist? 7 Years ago  
I have no idea and don't care but I do feel that surely this media inspired fiasco (to damage Ken Livingstone) could be sorted by simple 5 minute research. If he did at some point support Zionism, Ken was right to say it. If he didn't, he was wrong (though, really, who cares?).
 
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#160429
Re:Was Hitler a Zionist? 7 Years ago  
Well, that research seems to indicate Ken Livingstone was absolutely correct. So why on earth are the loonies squealing? I don't rely on Wikipedia but surely this cannot be TOTAL fiction?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement
 
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#160431
andrew

Re:Was Hitler a Zionist? 7 Years ago  
JK2006 wrote:
Well, that research seems to indicate Ken Livingstone was absolutely correct. So why on earth are the loonies squealing? I don't rely on Wikipedia but surely this cannot be TOTAL fiction?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement


People don't want the truth. It's too upsetting for them.
 
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#160435
Jo

Re:Was Hitler a Zionist? 7 Years ago  
From that Wikipedia entry:

"Hitler was not personally involved in the negotiation of the agreement, and his views on it appear to have shifted over time."

It's hard to see how anyone who advocated and implemented extermination of the Jewish race should have been in favour of "the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel" (definition of Zionism on Oxforddictionaries.com). If Hitler's regime was as efficient as it was with its extermination policy, it would surely have managed to deport those it packed into extermination camps to Israel instead, if developing and protecting the Jewish nation in Israel had been what Hitler wanted
 
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#160439
John Marsh

Re:Was Hitler a Zionist? 7 Years ago  
Hitler wanted the Jews out of Germany and the Zionist wanted to get to Israel so, of course, he would favour the movement. Was he a Zionist, no.

Hitler was a german nationalist and wanted all German speaking, not Jews of course, united thus the annexing of Austria and so on. If you follow his initial expansion you will see it was where german speaking people were living and formed a large to major part of the population.

"Hitler was not personally involved in the negotiation of the agreement, and his views on it appear to have shifted over time." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

But I agree the Ken Livingston and all "the going on" was total nonsense. Even that guy Irving (Known as the holocaust denier) has the odd justifiable point but he like most people see only their own view. People are not reasonable nor open minded. That is the real problem. If they were then they would not be threatened by open and frank discussion.

Nationalism can be good and nationalism can be bad. Jewish settlements appear to have a total disregard of other people living in the same areas. If what I see is true it is very sad that the people involved are acting no difference to the germans who persecuted the Jews. Surely they should learn from the past evil.

Nationalist should have a greater goal than uniting or separating, that was what was wrong with the Scottish movement their goal was to separate from the UK but never clear what their plan was for a better society. The goal they had was purely nationlistic. A pity.
 
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#160443
hedda

Re:Was Hitler a Zionist? 7 Years ago  
Ken Livingstone has fought racism his entire life apart from his other achievements as best London Mayor which so thoroughly pissed off the odious Blairites like Tom Watson.

And now the pie eater Tom Watson has outrageously added fuel to the fire claiming Ken is "anti-Semetic" a vicious lie from one of the most appalling opportunistic MPs in the UK.

It was Tom Watson who brought into - or rather tried to benefit from - the ridiculous "satanic Jewish Freemason pedo ring " in Westminster and covertly fueled intense hatred for 2 Jewish MPs Leon Brittan & Greville Janner.

Watson knew exactly what he was doing and knew the false accusations by deranged person were part of that entire meme.

And he dares to infer he is a friend of the Jews.

It's Watson who makes me fear Labour may need to be trounced again so the party can rid themselves of creeps like him (never had a real job in his life)...except,

except.. a new scandal will surface soon according to my well placed sources and that is this: Top Tories have financial links to the two main survey companies who keep claiming "Corbyn & Labour will be trounced" while internal Labour polling shows Labour is actually within 2 points of the Tories and Corbyn has high approval ratings because of his style of not your average Westminster type MP and because he perfroms well in interviews.

And that explains Watson's latest "outrage" at the Livingstone decision and also why... I sooo wish I had posted this yesterday as I knew it was coming..that is why Jeremy Corbyn has effectively neutered Watson's cheap shot by announcing he is also 'outraged' and has demanded a 'full investigation' into the Livingstone decision (with Ken's gleeful agreement).

Corbyn is emboldened by Labour's internal polling which shows the opposite to the Tory media polling...Watson is having a last ditch attempt to become leader....and the outcome will be...Corbyn has nipped another Livingstone 'controversy' in the bud and you will see a far more aggressive Corbyn in the coming year.

Watson is finished and his tenure as Deputy Leader will limp on for another 6 months until he is banished to the back benches for all time. Good riddance you deceptive oaf.
 
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#160447
Spee

Re:Was Hitler a Zionist? 7 Years ago  
A Zionist is a person who believes/suports the development and protection of the Jewish nation.

Put simply, Hitler was not - he despised them, and set up ways to exterminate them; Ken should have been more specific.

One of the most horrific episodes in human history - when commented on - needs concise and accurate points.


Yes Ken may have been right on an ancillary view - but totally wrong in the much bigger, relevant and important context...


 
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#160448
John

Re:Was Hitler a Zionist? 7 Years ago  
Spee wrote:
A Zionist is a person who believes/suports the development and protection of the Jewish nation.

Put simply, Hitler was not - he despised them, and set up ways to exterminate them; Ken should have been more specific.

One of the most horrific episodes in human history - when commented on - needs concise and accurate points.


Yes Ken may have been right on an ancillary view - but totally wrong in the much bigger, relevant and important context...




What's with the first name "Ken"? You sound like either you think you're Ken's mate, or you've got a weird crush, like a fan of an actor on Emmerdale.
 
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#160450
MWTW

Re:Was Hitler a Zionist? 7 Years ago  
Hitler may of been.
Savile did good charity work but don't mention that now.
Can't stand ken livingstone met him a coupleasure of times very briefly in the houses of parliament riverside restaurant when the only free seats were on his table, it did get mighty rammed in there sometimes.
 
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#160468
Spee

Re:Was Hitler a Zionist? 7 Years ago  
John wrote:
Spee wrote:
A Zionist is a person who believes/suports the development and protection of the Jewish nation.

Put simply, Hitler was not - he despised them, and set up ways to exterminate them; Ken should have been more specific.

One of the most horrific episodes in human history - when commented on - needs concise and accurate points.


Yes Ken may have been right on an ancillary view - but totally wrong in the much bigger, relevant and important context...




What's with the first name "Ken"? You sound like either you think you're Ken's mate, or you've got a weird crush, like a fan of an actor on Emmerdale.



Sorry John...

 
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#160470
John Marsh

Re:Was Hitler a Zionist? 7 Years ago  
Spee wrote:
A Zionist is a person who believes/suports the development and protection of the Jewish nation.

Put simply, Hitler was not - he despised them, and set up ways to exterminate them; Ken should have been more specific.

One of the most horrific episodes in human history - when commented on - needs concise and accurate points.


Yes Ken may have been right on an ancillary view - but totally wrong in the much bigger, relevant and important context...




Thought better see what Ken actually said.

www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2017/...arty-expulsion-video

I am trusting this video captures Ken Livinstone's full comments by which from the clip appears to be a well spoken snippet of history. Further comment about the enquiry like been in North Korea I think he said and no one was listening to him!

Would I vote Labour or Tory. All I can think is God (or someone) please help us. Ken seems great to me but as for the rest!!!

It is no wonder that a jury can be easily hookwinked.

As to Zionism then think Holocaust a very few german murderering Jews then read Joshus 6.21 in the Old Testament of the Christian Bible also a Zionist's reference book.

Then tell me what is different because I can not see it, as I picture both points of history in my mind.
 
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