OK It's a mere drop in the ocean and it is our money; our taxes. £100K to a couple of wealthy victims of the False Allegations Industry. But coming in the same week that the Beale woman got ten years, despite the CPS squealing "it never happens" (because they are part of the problem), it gets media thinking "Hold on; perhaps there is something in all this". Dear Lord Bramall and dear Lady Brittan suffered but, as I keep telling Gambo and others, not that much. Even Nigel Evans MP can say, eventually, the system worked and he was acquitted. But how about the thousands - not mere hundreds - of innocent men and women currently blocking up our jails? Many very elderly. Many with ruined careers and families. Many committed suicide. I've ranted on for 17 years. I'm not stopping.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/met-pays...over-raids-3wczjvl6l

www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/operation-...e-ring-a3625426.html

"Dear Lord Bramall and dear Lady Brittan suffered but, as I keep telling Gambo and others, not that much."

Maybe I have not read the above comment of yours correctly JK or maybe I am just being pedantic, but are you really saying the Bramalls and Brittans did not suffer that much?

Yes I am Peter; compared to serving years in prison for crimes that never took place, a little mild discomfort was nothing. The False Allegations Industry, supported by bent lawyers, cops and media, is responsible for far worse suffering than the Bramalls and Brittans suffered.

Yes - Lord Bramall & Lady Brittan were granted a "right to reply" as well, something else not granted to the hundreds imprisoned and/or bankrupted by false allegations. Your "average Joe" teacher/carer/"OddBod" etc can't afford decent legal representation who won't throw the case to the State Prosecution.
I'd say DLT is quite high up the "food chain" of falsely accused and wrongly convicted, and no-one in the media grants him a "right to reply" or even acknowledge he exists anymore - ditto the family of the deceased "poster boy" of this witch hunt.

Perhaps this is too simplistic, but I wonder if it's the class system at work. Not that they shouldn't have been given a right of reply, but if they're getting it and others aren't...

From the ImpartialReporter.com, today:

"Former Met Police Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe apologised to those named during the probe, while Lord Bramall spoke of his anger that his wife died before he had been cleared.

And Lady Brittan hit out after it emerged police decided her husband had no case to answer but failed to tell him before he died of cancer."

Hardly a little mild discomfort ...

From Barrister Blogger, a great comment from Margaret Jervis:

"... a very well argued blog highlighting some of the major presumptive flaws that have mushroomed over the last 25 years. Because these flaws are never seriously addressed they have become worse and – were the criminal justice system a plane, it would have fallen out of the sky. Frankly the ’98-9 /1-2 percent’ rhetoric has been an absolutist mantra from the the late 1980s. I think it is based on notional statistical error rather than fact to lend a semblance of plausibility – it can be adapted to any purpose – ’98 per cent of sex offenders/offences never convicted/detected etc etc’ I worked out through nominal research that these figures were presumption working from the desired end to the speculative base. But nobody cared and they still don’t – which means there is a will to believe the most awful things even when not well-founded. And a callous disregard of the real effects of the inevitable mistakes (both ways) on all parties.

...

Re the number of false allegations – of course none of us know how many there are! The CPS (if they count at all rather than the process i outlined) only include those proven to be false which is usually contemporaneous cases where CCTV etc demonstrates falsehood. The rest – including acquittals are excluded from the figures and lumped with the ‘true’ allegations.

Many years ago I interviewed the then head of Childline – I asked how many hoax calls they got – she looked askance and said – we don’t call them ‘hoax calls’ we call them ‘testing calls’ because we think they must have something to say about abuse to call. So clearly a) they knew they had hoax callers b) they regarded them as ‘true calls’ under another description and c) they appeared in their stats as ‘ abuse calls’. There was no stat in their figures for hoax calls under any description (even ‘testing’) . Furthermore, they would not know when a call was a false allegation even when not obviously ‘hoax’. But hidden within their figures it emerged that only a small percentage of all calls were about sexual abuse, disappearing to virtual invisibility to the under 12s.

Course this says nothing about the actual incidence, it’s true. But clearly the money raising ads of young girl doubled up on stairs etc are an exception in reality as to users. Courts, judges and juries are now so swamped by sex cases (mostly historical) that the sheer numbers have led to a belief in ubiquity – particularly where the claims are most extreme without any genuine corroboration. For a long time the situation has deteriorated to such an extent, with so many careers and reputations invested in it, that no-one dare to try and fix it – and if they do they are ignored or shouted down. It’s a class witchhunt scenario – and only when those ruling the roost become ‘victims’ of the false accs hysteria on a large scale, will there be any will to reform."

And No1 News Items on the BBC but buried in the Mail (it was, after all, a great story)...

www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

And Peter - "mild discomfort" only when compared to the horrendous, far worse discomfort of suffering trials and jail terms. Cutting your finger is less painful than having your leg blown off.

JK2006 wrote:
Yes I am Peter; compared to serving years in prison for crimes that never took place, a little mild discomfort was nothing. The False Allegations Industry, supported by bent lawyers, cops and media, is responsible for far worse suffering than the Bramalls and Brittans suffered.

I wouldn't call it not much suffering. I would be distraught if my husband was falsely accused, dead or alive.
Recognising one persons pain doesn't diminish another's.




I am using a tablet because my laptop blew up. 8i haven't the foggiest idea how to punctuate or stop it inserting random numbers so please bear with me until the laptop is replaced.

JK2006 wrote:
And No1 News Items on the BBC but buried in the Mail (it was, after all, a great story)...

www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html


88i Need to get wiv da lingo by the look of it. 88is financial domination what they call prostitution these days? Ànd I thought escorting was silly!

Peter and (incomprehensible) HoneyOnTablet - of course being wrongly arrested, having your home and cars searched, facing massive media condemnation (guilty unless proven innocent) is appalling. I've been there. But believe me, far worse is then facing trial, being convicted of crimes that never took place, serving years in prison, being banned from everything on release... And even worse than your loved one dying (Bramall and Brittan) is when YOU die (Pollinger, Corday, Randall). Compared to all that, the odd false allegation is a walk in the park.

And it goes on... when is somebody in a position of power going to say "there is something seriously wrong with Police behaviour and it HAS to be sorted". Why must it take people with money (like this guy) or determination (like Lynn Bryant) before the courts sit up and pay attention?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4847278...oman-rape-claim.html

Chris wrote:
Yes - Lord Bramall & Lady Brittan were granted a "right to reply" as well, something else not granted to the hundreds imprisoned and/or bankrupted by false allegations. Your "average Joe" teacher/carer/"OddBod" etc can't afford decent legal representation who won't throw the case to the State Prosecution.
I'd say DLT is quite high up the "food chain" of falsely accused and wrongly convicted, and no-one in the media grants him a "right to reply" or even acknowledge he exists anymore - ditto the family of the deceased "poster boy" of this witch hunt.

How do you know that DLT was wrongly convicted or Jk for that matter. Were you working on the Mrs Merton show that night that woman was groped or allegedly groped. It is non custodial sentence, so not that serious. Certainly not worthy of wiping him from history whilst Leslie Grantham carries on after doing 12 years for manslaughter.

robbiex wrote:



How do you know that DLT was wrongly convicted or Jk for that matter.

One simple answer to your question is that without corroborating evidence, it is logically impossible for an accusation to overcome the presumption of innocence, however convincingly it is delivered in court. "I might be mistaken about this witness's truthfulness" is a reasonable doubt that will always be present unless overcome by additional evidence.

Randall wrote:
[quote "I might be mistaken about this witness's truthfulness" is a reasonable doubt[/quote]


... that applies equally to the defendant !!!

Absolutely ITK; for once I'm sure not only Randall but myself and everyone else agrees with you; under those circumstances (99% of all sex trials) the jury cannot totally believe either side and the presumption of innocence means they have to acquit.

But this is more about police and CPS behaviour and how badly they have gone wrong. In days gone by, not only would Judges not allow allegations of police misconduct from the defence (as I was told 17 years ago) but jurors tended to assume all police were like Dixon of Dock Green, apart from the odd (very rare, like "false Accusers") bad apple. Now however they are starting to see breaches of the code of discipline and even criminal behaviour. Because they got away with it for so long, assisted by politicians like Michael Howard who, with I believe best intentions, changed the law in order to make it easier to convict genuine abusers, they spotted loopholes they could use. Aided and abetted by Judges who, again with best intentions, tried to uphold the law (however barmy). Aware that Judges would always back them, police got lazier and more corrupt; from bending the law they started breaking the law themselves, in order to get convictions. Told by their bosses that truth did not matter but convictions did, they crossed the line. Until Sir Richard Henriques, a retired Judge who was, until then, unaware of the behaviour of police, examined cases in detail and was absolutely horrified. Next step? Prosecutions of individual police and public officials - not just false accusers. When those who not only allowed Danny Day and Jemma Beale and others "get away with it" but assisted in their crimes ("credible and true") are locked up for long periods, we may see balance return. Too late for the thousands in jail now or in the past. Too late for the Amelie Delegranges and Marsha McDonnells and murdered innocents because a corrupt cop let a killer escape justice. Too late for the Breck Brecknars, whose life was taken by someone escaping police attention due to senior officer incompetence. Too late for Deepcut kids killed by someone escaping decent police investigation (who is probably still out there, killing). But hopefully in time to prevent future tragedies.

Which is why we have open trials ... so the Jury (not a single person) can test the witness, judge their truthfulness (are they evasive? / slippery? slimy?) ... is the claim plausible? etc etc etc

A trial is already "loaded" in favour of a defendant (presumption of innocence) UNTIL much more believeable evidence / witness emerges.

The Kray twins SAID they were innocent lol !!!!

And sadly some of us feel that as the world has changed it has become harder than ever for jurors to see the truth. Liars are better at lying. Internet research and bent cops assist false accusers. "Evidence" is no longer evidence; it can be lies. The system in 2017 is affected by changes in morality, media development, bad police training and discipline.

Felt the need to add to this discussion - I've not suffered jail but I use the analogy of being the lead part in Shawshank Redemption - the frustration, hurt, anxiety all have a colour (darkest purple) it's REAL pain guys - the tears are flowing now - our gagging orders are like slowly drowning - I've nothing else to compare this utter nightmare to but a daily nightmare it is - I'd go as far to say it's like being in prison - I want to scream from the rooftops and have just one or two places to even speak like this....... I may just have a cut finger JK but it bloody hurts every hour of every day.