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TOPIC: George Pell verdict
#191851
George Pell verdict 1 Month ago  
Carl Beech must be wishing he'd committed his crimes in Australia; Judges there seem to find witnesses more "credible & truthful" than here. It all looks a bit unlikely. The Pope should intervene after his recent discoveries about "abused" people - not all of them are entirely honest.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7152553...g-two-choirboys.html
 
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#191894
hedda

Re:George Pell verdict 1 Month ago  
needless to say I'm shocked but expected it.

I have never in all my years (so many) seen the hatred directed towards George Pell.

I'm non-religious but I was married to a Catholic.

She claims to be "lapsed" but I'm not so sure.

I rang her..she lives in Wales..and asked her what she thought. She has never expressed much like for Pell but reckons The Devil is at work and The Vatican and the Catholic Church are at risk of demolition.

She's an intelligent person and pretty down to Earth..she reckons Evil and the Devil are not what we are told but ideas...a movement almost where evil is an entity that is powerful and can overwhelm people and work to drive out good.

She thinks the attack on Pell is part of a wider movement to destroy the Church.

It's example by the false allegations industry. So many good and harmless people have been destroyed by false allegations.

And look how they are fighting back about the Beech fiasco!
 
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#191902
Barney

Re:George Pell verdict 1 Month ago  
The thoughts of 'she' are interesting - but the facts are much simpler.

Because of human frailty and inherent loneliness - Catholic clergy took advantage of their extremely high status in so many communities.

In every continent on earth. Paedophile tendencies were satisfied - and it took the local civil authorities to bring them to boot.

Such as in Australia, France, Ireland, Peru, USA etc.

Whilst for years, the Catholic machine simply denied everything, including the existence of any wrongdoing.

Innocent men were accused (Pell included probably/the token high ranker).


But the worldwide culture of denial was the critical factor. Something Francis is taking steps to address.

'Demolition' may well occur if church personnel aren't made immediately subject to local laws and courts - like everyone else - by the Vatican itself.

Currently, in so many countries, information has to be literally dragged from the local diocese...


 
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#191903
Re:George Pell verdict 4 Weeks, 1 Day ago  
No Barney; not simpler, far more complex; herein lies the problem
Are there abusive priests? Yes, certainly.
Are there innocent priests falsely accused? Yes, certainly.
But the vast majority are somewhere in the middle; in the grey area.
 
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#191904
Barney

Re:George Pell verdict 4 Weeks, 1 Day ago  
Innocent priests, yes many

Abused children too


Worst of all though

The Catholic 'Omerta'


Grey areas, yes

But why refuse to produce abusers' files - worldwide, those of priests


Under the Catholic regime, children had to go to 'confession'


And were encouraged to talk - in a box, about their sins, feelings and emotions

What better place for holy predators to identify potential victims...



 
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#191907
Re:George Pell verdict 4 Weeks, 1 Day ago  
The truth! What we know for sure

1. money attract huge numbers with stories (lies)!

2. Follow on from Jimmy Savile some of the others accused were able to find evidence (amazingly) that whether it was 5 10 20 or more accusing them of sexual abuse everyone was shown to be a liar!!!! )In those cases the false allegations was shown to be 100% mark

3. Catholic church has been handing out money left right and centre. That is the simple reason for the huge number of allegations.

4. In the UK media reports on a day to day basis of trials of people caught red handed with reported solid evidence not just someone recounting something. Then current well evidenced trials give an indication of the real problem and numbers. (Obviously not everyone reports and the police, cps still fabricate evidence even when there is no need) But reports and trial of current cases is the only reliable evidence as an indication.

5. The question is who make the numbers of sexual abusers, with evidence, from what backgrounds like police, sports, schools and priests. Some even in current times, the immediate now are easy targets of false accusations and alas a number are guilty like the teaching profession which seems to have classic situations where both male and female teachers cross the line.

But of interest priests in the now do not feature. Interesting!! Of course human nature says there must be some somewhere who succumb!!

So on the only available real evidence indicates that many, a high percentage are lying and this whole catholic thing is wrong.

Even some priest confessing to historical crimes may not be telling the truth and have just thrown up their hands confessed and gave up fighting the false accusations. Why bother. Who knows? The whole thing is nonsense. All I ever want to agree with the "poor me" crowd (while getting rich on attention stories and compensation) is Evidence, evidence and more evidence. No historical stories "too unreliable". What I call the three F's Facts, more facts and nothing but the facts.
 
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#191917
Re:George Pell verdict 4 Weeks ago  
You might be aware that one of the men behind the George Pell case was Peter Saunders of NAPAC and, at one time, before they discovered a lot about him, a Vatican advisor. NAPAC where Carl Beech was a beloved regular. As he was at the NSPCC. Follow the money.

I remember almost four years ago thinking "Hmm, clearly envelopes arrived through 15 letter boxes in Rome one morning that convinced the entire commission to discreetly dump this man. I wonder what they contained".

Since then - George Pell and so many others.

www.ncronline.org/news/accountability/ab...-seeks-papal-meeting
 
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Last Edit: 2019/08/24 05:35 By JK2006.
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#192095
Barney

Re:George Pell verdict 3 Weeks, 1 Day ago  
Numerous others Cardinals have now been - or are coming - before a variety of courts.

Phillipe Barbarin, Archbishop of Lyon, was given a custodial sentence (albeit suspended) earlier this year.

Barbarin refused to report a priest in his archdiocese who was regularly abusing boy scouts.

Simply transferring him from place to place - and denying any wrongdoing by the church.

French courts found it unacceptable, as did the the people.

An award winning movie about the story was recently made.


Called 'By the Grace of God'...



 
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#192097
Barney

Re:George Pell verdict 3 Weeks, 1 Day ago  
Last year, Theo McCarrick - Cardinal and Archbishop of Washington was laicised and defrocked by the Pope.

In other words - turfed out of the church, after being convicted of a lifetime of sexual offences against minors and adults.

McCarrick is believed to be the first serving Cardinal to be expelled in such a fashion.


 
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#192101
Barney

Re:George Pell verdict 3 Weeks, 1 Day ago  
The wheels of justice differed in the cases of Pell, Barbarin and McCarrick - the Three Cardinals.


P was accused, by a victim, and convicted by the civil court; later (if his second appeal fails), he will be judged by an eclesiastical court in the Vatican.



B was brought to the attention of the police (and afterwards,the civil courts) by the victims of a paedophile priest, who reported to him.

Although his whereabouts are unknown, he will soon face an eclesiastical court; he essentially admits his guilt. The relevant movie is top class.



M largely concentrated on seminarians (trainee priests, living in a residential community) - who later accused him, via the local police authorities.

Seemingly, the Catholic church in Washington sidestepped the civil courts - and engineered his conviction by the internal court, which fired him.

Punishment and sentence is to live in a safe house somewhere, not to travel and be quiet.



Different horse, in different countries...


 
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#192522
Barney

Re:George Pell verdict 3 Days, 10 Hours ago  
George Pell yesterday applied to the Australian High Court for leave to appeal the majority verdict of the Appeal Court.

Though usually refused - GP's appeal will probably be granted, primarily because one of the Appeal Court judges strongly disputed his colleagues' verdicts.

Still in jail - and a member of the College of Cardinals - GP will be anxiously awaiting his last chance to be freed, and vindicated.


 
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