This is my last post. Why do it Jonathan? I've just seen the You Tube clip. I can't sign up to your conspiracy theories, especially as evidence was rock solid against Shipman. I'm willing to hear you out, but I'm not happy with you comparing your case against that of proved killers. You do yourself no favours.Can't you see? People will just say that you are at one with the monsters, the paedophiles, the nutters!! I know that's not true. Seeing Elton last Thursday reminded me of how the media, notably The Sun, attempted to crucify the man some years ago. They really did have a good go at destroying Elton and his career. They didn't succeed, but boy! For sure they tried. That's why I sympathise with your case Jonathan. But you should let it go. Please. You've let me down with the Shipman track. NOT NECCESSARY. And dare I say, somewhat sick! Goodbye.

I know no more about the Shipman case than you do Chrissy but my point is - it may not be all it seems.

Carry on then! That's all I can say. I think you are making a mistake. You're giving the tabloid scum just what they want. Jonathan King backs Shipman!! FFS!! Better to make a point about what they tried to do to Elton. I liked the 'vile pervert' vid, but the Shipman vid isn't good.

Ah the Vile Pervert lyric could well be about that and the Shipman one could be another aspect of the same coin.

We will never know but as a writer I'm a great believer in keeping an open mind.

Oh Chrissy.

It`s a view of a situation in a song format.
Don`t let this be your last post, JK does not expect everything he writes to be a definitive statement on the world and neither does he expect his listeners.

"She Love`s You Yeah Yeah Yeah",(granted obviously not one of JK`s) would not have been a hit if it was called, "My mates girlfriend fancies you a bit but I`m not really sure, why don`t you question the issue with her? Yeah Yeah Yeah?"

I do know you will read this and you need to look at art verses pop as a medium as controversial subjects will allways appear and when they don`t , we will all sing "doobey doobey be doo" until eternity.

I dont agree Jonathan. I feel the Shipman thing is detrimental to your fight. I'm on your side. I feel that the bastards have won in your case, and it pains me as I dont feel justice has been done. Furthermore it could happen to anyone of us. You helped Elton, reviving his career, reviving the music.. Unselfish and brilliant. So why leave yourself open to condemnation? I sometimes fear you are a glutton for punishment. Please, please, will you please publish a song that promotes your fight, and dosen't add to the doubt.

There are songs about more similar cases to mine, Chrissy, like Professional Victims and Plead Guilty.

And some general ones about love and affection.

And sarcastic ones about Coca Cola and Sir Bob and even Satan himself.

Creative songwriters find inspiration in a lot of things. They write their songs in the hope that they strike a chord, make people think, argue, discuss - even sometimes become incensed on message boards.

I'm not really an "I love you" sort of lyricist. I'm a "here's an idea to make your brain cells whirr" kind of writer. I'm a "sit up and pay attention" composer.

Whether it's Everyone's gone to the moon or It's good news week or Johnny Reggae or an instrumental full of the noise of slapped faces.

And as for tabloid condemnation - I've survived far worse than that.

So thanks for getting involved. That's what counts.
Now try Satan's ultimate weapon of mass destruction.

That really pisses them off!

I know Jonathan, but being controversial and creative surely doesn't mean promoting serial killers; or is it required. You yourself know what the tabloids do...they scare,,,they tease...they destroy...they manipulate...in order to make profits. And they will use Shipman in order to destroy the innocent. Jonathan, Harold Shipman has never been on your side. He's dead, and guilty.

It`s a song.

"Maxwells Silver Hammer" had nothing to do with a "disgraced" newspaper exec.
Although it could have been construed thus and could be interpreted in that way at any time.

I took the song to be highlighting the unofficial policy of euthanasia.

Although my knowledge is sailing close to urban myth I understand that a doctor saying "I am going to give a large does of morphine to relieve the pain" is essentially saying "It's all over. let's make this as pleasant as we can".

Not that support for euthanasia is going to appease the tabloids any more than support for serial killers will.

As for JK baiting the tabloids... I don't think it would make any difference if he did or did not, indeed the example of Satan's Ultimate Weapon the facts didn't get in the way of good story.

Chrissy,
I think that you're taking the Harold Shipman song too specifically - the point that JK is making is that whatever the media say, there is always the reverse view. I believe that he is playing Devil's Advocate in this situation and pointing out that everything, however extreme or 'set in stone' benefits from viewing from a different perspective. I think that Shipman was absolutely guilty, but I still find that JK's point is well made.
You mustn't leave the board because of this - it's exactly the reason you should stay and remain a contributor !!

It wont be my last post Mart. I understand what you are saying, and I know Jonathan will never go down quietly, and neither should he. I have probably over reacted, but I do feel the case against Shipman is water tight, and I just feel that JK plays into some people's hands.

For artistic reasons Chrissy, why should he not?
What`s the worst that could happen?
7 years of bad luck?

Seriously though, I champion the latest album on face value, it avoids musical cliches and yet uses them with bizarre and controversial subject text.
The predictable way of making "Earth to King", would have been singing those lyrics over a harsh punk rock backing instead of the pretty backing it has.
In fact as I am just back from a gig with screaming tinitus, it has just occured to me to cover one of the tracks in that way to demonstrate this.

Mickey is spot on and what an interesting debate this would make filmed around a large oak table.

One final note, before I finally sleep before a 10.30am a+r meeting, the paper that thought "Satan" was serious completely missed the irony.
It might be worth pointing out to them that the Sex Pistols "God Save the Queen" was actually not an attempt to write a new national anthem at all.

As for tabloid baitng Zoo, my old friend,as they have written the same stories for two weeks, I do not doubt we have all just given them a coloumn to peruse.

Well done all, good discussion.

The evidence presented via the media suggests that Shipman was guilty. but I'm always mindful of the fact that there is more to every story than we usually get to hear. So, to be honest, I haven't a clue whether Harold Shipman, Rose West or Roy Whiting were guilty or not.

Over the years there have been several major, and many minor, convictions which we were "beyond doubt" but which later were proven to be unsafe. It's important that people continue to ask questions regardless of how difficult or unpopular.

Spot on Cat; Sally Clark was the most tragic case; everyone declared her a guilty, evil baby killer until she was proved to be a sad cot death mother.

I think Shipman was guilty - but not the moster portrayed by the media.

And the song is about that - don't believe the caricatures.

Some excellent points being highlighted here in this thread, particularly about the media.

The British media are experts on brainwashing. They do this by applying a tag to the person in question... Shipman was a "monster", JK, a "vile pervert". Everytime they do a new piece those tags are used all the time and so if its printed on a daily basis, those tags become synonymous with that person.

We all know here that they forever publish lies and slander because they know that the libel laws are so costly and complex very few can afford to bite back and clear their name.

What the media fail to bear in mind is the effect it all has upon the families. Their lives get destroyed as well. One of Fred Wests' daughters whom he regularly abused had an abnormal hellish childhood thanks to him... her sisters were murdered by him. She went through enough pain and hell before the media got involved. Now she will never be able to move on because she is forever tagged and branded as Fred Wests daughter so that means she must be as "evil" as her father and that she should pay some price for Freds' crimes. The hell Sally Clarks' family must have gone through... that will never end thanks to Sally being branded and punished for something she was proved not to be. The media aren't interested in any of that... they just move on to somebody else to kick and destroy.

But we are all a part of the media, Elliott - from mere board posters to old hookers like me who happily took the News International shilling for ten years (and knows where all the bodies are buried).

We must remember - it's not THEM it's US.

Which is just one of the many points I try to make in my songs.

And the fact that this Vile Pervert has had his videos watched by over a million people over the past 9 months - thanks to You Tube, Google, My Space, Yahoo, Live and the rest - is one of the PLUS sides to the radical changes of this fascinating century.

And we must all do everything we can to ensure the media is a force for good, not evil.

We must not forget that Fred West never stood trial and so the evidence was never properly heard. Legally, he died an innocent man. His wife was found guilty, but the thing which concerned me about her trial was that the main witnesses against her were promised a large media payout before they had even testified in court. In my opinion this damaged their credibility.

All fair minded people must surely have some tiny questions and doubts at the backs of their minds.

That is very true JK - we are indeed the Media! "The Media" I referred to in my post was essentially television and papers who are a law unto themselves, but it is changing as you point out for we now have them urging their viewers and readers to send videos and photos that they can use in their stories. I read that when one guy noticed the Cutty Sark burning, the first thing he did was stand there and take pictures of it!

I take great heart from how so many many people have watched your videos, continue to support your work and the various reports you post about encounters with members of the public who are on your side. That does indeed speak volumes.

Good point also The Cat regarding Rose Wests' trial. I too was concerned and disgusted by the fact the main witnesses had mostly taken cash from the papers. Brian Masters' book "She Must Have Known" offers a fair depiction of that particular case, arguring why Rose should not had had to stand trial for Freds' crimes. The daughter I talked about unfortunately was one such case who went to the papers which probably helped harm her standing.

It is worth remembering that when Fred West knew he was going to be convicted he told his son and daughter in law to go to the papers and make as much money as they could out of them, as if in some way he was orchestrating the media blitz that followed. That certainly helped damage Roses' trial as well, especially when he committed suicide. "Somebody" had to pay for his crimes so Rose had to take the entire rap.

I suppose it's a about getting the balance right. I'm not so sure about Rose West, but certainly Hindley suffered as a result of the tabloid scum. In my view she was as much a victim of Ian Brady as those children. The tabloids loved that photograph of her with the wild eyes and wild blonde hair; Myra= The Chld Killing Witch. I was just a bit concerned as I did feel that JK was leaving himself wide open to attack, but I've read what he had to say and what others have said here, and I understand more now. I'm not so convinced that are tabloid press could ever be a force for good. But Jonathan is the eternal optimist.