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Anyone's media-led perceptions of Andrew or what he did or didn't do are irrelevant to whether he had sex with trafficked minors.
Anyone's perception (from one photograph; this is beside the point, but pertinant to bias, is beside the point) of what a trafficked person should "look like" is irrelevant and ridiculous.
If republicans are pushing the agenda in their own interests this is also irrelevant to whether he did it or not.
Who knows. I hope we will find out. To clear him of unfair and media-flamed persecution, or give solace to genuine victims.
Rephrase media savvy victim JK, "And what is the eternal flame, the petrol, the fire? The REAL monarch, fake media. Those journalist cowards can't even state that the UK AOC is 16 not eighteen, but it's another great 'snake oil' story to sell to their millions of kept dumb mugs on most issues!"
Every one should be assumed innocent until proven guilty, this is true. However this doesn't mean that every accuser should be assumed to be a false accuser until it is proven to be true. Most people don't casually make false allegations. If the documentary series has any hint of truth in it then Epstein hired underage girls to perform sexual massages on him, and he allegedly had 2 12 year old girls bought in from France for him to sexually abuse for his birthday. If Ghislaine was his live-in girlfriend, it seems that it is highly likely that he was aware of what was probably going on and at best turned a blind-eye possibly just to maintain her luxurious lifestyle. The documentary shows many of the reports verified by many of his employees from his private island. I think there is definitely a case to answer for Ghislaine Maxwell.
wyot wrote: Anyone's perception (from one photograph; this is beside the point, but pertinant to bias, is beside the point) of what a trafficked person should "look like" is irrelevant and ridiculous.
Grinning from ear to ear isn't what I'd expect someone to look like who claims she was disgusted after already being told in the car she was to do for Prince Andrew what she did for Jeffrey Epstein. She has apparently also claimed to have slept several times with Alan Dershowitz and he says she's lying, that he never met her and that she had previously admitted in writing to not knowing him.
Now she stands accused of serious crimes allegedly committed a quarter of a century ago. Like every other arrested person, she must be presumed innocent. Many in the public however, will presume her guilty because of the portrayal of her in the Netflix series about Jeffrey Epstein. But no one should believe anything they saw in that series, because it was based largely on the accounts of two women with histories of making dubious accusations.
Now she stands accused of serious crimes allegedly committed a quarter of a century ago. Like every other arrested person, she must be presumed innocent. Many in the public however, will presume her guilty because of the portrayal of her in the Netflix series about Jeffrey Epstein. But no one should believe anything they saw in that series, because it was based largely on the accounts of two women with histories of making dubious accusations.
Not that this is concrete evidence that there was physical abuse, but child porn was found in the safe at Epstein's home, along with CCTV footage secretly filming the goings on in each guest bedroom allowing black mail potential from some very powerful people.
Jo wrote: wyot wrote: Anyone's perception (from one photograph; this is beside the point, but pertinant to bias, is beside the point) of what a trafficked person should "look like" is irrelevant and ridiculous.
Grinning from ear to ear isn't what I'd expect someone to look like who claims she was disgusted after already being told in the car she was to do for Prince Andrew what she did for Jeffrey Epstein. She has apparently also claimed to have slept several times with Alan Dershowitz and he says she's lying, that he never met her and that she had previously admitted in writing to not knowing him.
I think we are in trouble if we believe we can determine someome's state of mind/intentions and judge them from a photo...People can grin with all sorts of emotions behind the grin.
If she really wanted to evade justice, rather than, say, the media, surely she'd have fled the country.
Not in relation to this article, but just generally, I don't know what to believe about this case any more. For example: Did Epstein really have pinhole cameras in his bedrooms and bathrooms (as claimed (below) by the woman who seems to be the original accuser, Maria Farmer) and does Maxwell have a "secret" stash (that's so secret that people are yacking about it online) of compromising videos to use as "insurance" and a means to blackmail prominent guests? If you go to the trouble and expense of installing pinhole cameras throughout your home for secret filming, why disclose this to someone? Did Maxwell really drive around with Maria Farmer, stopping at schools and parks to give her phone number to "nubiles"? Why did Epstein and Maxwell apparently reveal their modus operandi to Farmer? If underage girls were being transported to Epstein's island, etc., where were their parents and what did they think they were doing? It's difficult to tell what's the truth, what's exaggeration or invention and what's speculation and conspiracy theory.
You're probably right, wyot. Prince Edward as producer? Haha!
I see that the woman who seems to have been the original accuser, Maria Farmer, has been giving interviews on YouTube to a conspiracy theorist called Shaun Attwood. She makes lots of wild claims, including that Ghislaine Maxwell had made death threats against her and that she and Jeffrey Epstein were satanists. She also said that she (Farmer) had a brain tumour, a rare form of cancer. Virginia Roberts Giuffre has been raising funds for her via gofundme and says on the page that Farmer has Hodgkin's lymphoma and is currently undergoing chemotherapy. The photos in the link seem to back that up.
If she really wanted to evade justice, rather than, say, the media, surely she'd have fled the country.
Not in relation to this article, but just generally, I don't know what to believe about this case any more. For example: Did Epstein really have pinhole cameras in his bedrooms and bathrooms (as claimed (below) by the woman who seems to be the original accuser, Maria Farmer) and does Maxwell have a "secret" stash (that's so secret that people are yacking about it online) of compromising videos to use as "insurance" and a means to blackmail prominent guests? If you go to the trouble and expense of installing pinhole cameras throughout your home for secret filming, why disclose this to someone? Did Maxwell really drive around with Maria Farmer, stopping at schools and parks to give her phone number to "nubiles"? Why did Epstein and Maxwell apparently reveal their modus operandi to Farmer? If underage girls were being transported to Epstein's island, etc., where were their parents and what did they think they were doing? It's difficult to tell what's the truth, what's exaggeration or invention and what's speculation and conspiracy theory.
I agree, Jo. It is starting to sound like the hysterical "Jimmy Savile attacking someone while wearing a devil mask and making jewellery out of his victims'glass eyes" nonsense.
The Epstein now Maxell has lacked clear evidence from the beginning going back years. Even Epstein's suicide/ (murder?) in prison lacks clarity. "The truth is out there" but will we ever know. (Maybe the truth is too boring for the media and geneal public who watch and read the media). There are things that can be be seen to be known facts like Prince Andrew had contact with Epstein who was at the time an accepted financier. It looks like Epstein like/needed massages like millions of others, he even paid for a now well known person to go to Thailand to get top level training in massage techniques (This aspect not noted much as lacks the sex part).
FBI, US justice well then again their whole system certainly has much room for improvement. Maybe safer in Russia or China after all. The world is crazy as far as i can tell. And I am the last of the sane, that's how it feels some days anyhow.
Anyhow I shall continue to watch this saga and hope the real truth will emerge. So far in the US latest madness - the truth has been swallowed up by media lead emotion and US attornies grabbing the limelight for their own ends.
I think an article that Hedda posted to this site last year got closer to the truth. He had the disorder known as Satyriasis. But the media plays down ‘causes’ preferring instead to run and re-run stories of the ‘effects’ side of things whether they include evidence or not. One possible reason why causes are ignored is because they are uncomfortable and embarrassing to most. Better to get lost in a heap of waffle than get to the truth. Any attempts to do so are usually snuffed out in the first instance with labels such as "stop making excuses".
I remember reading that article before. It does provide a logical explanation for that kind of behaviour. But I see that Stuart Pivar believes Maria Farmer, though the law enforcement agencies don't seem to have taken her seriously as they didn't pursue Epstein or Maxwell in 1996 for the sexual assault she accused them of. And he doesn't seem to believe Virginia Roberts Giuffre's accusations against other men. His worries about talking to the journalist are quite amusing. He'll probably be having to talk to the FBI now.
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