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Is the comparison to Flu wrong?
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TOPIC: Is the comparison to Flu wrong?
#200530
Is the comparison to Flu wrong? 1 Week, 3 Days ago  
No they are both unpleasant viruses which are minor to most; lethal to some. It is the way we have dealt with them that matters. By allowing the media to inflate the dangers of the virus and because governments (and most people) fell for the story of "a plague", the way we all dealt with it has been disastrous. Not just foolish.

Covid 19 has not destroyed airlines - it is how governments dealt with it that has. Likewise health services. Shopping centres. If everyone had used common sense we'd be fine.

Self isolating if any symptoms. Avoiding contact with anybody if vulnerable. Increased security, health provisions & treatments in care homes, hospitals, prisons, refugee camps.

Not general lockdowns. Specific regional, local, individual ones.

Like Flu. If I got Flu I made sure I didn't visit my elderly Mum. Common sense.
 
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#200534
Barney

Re:Is the comparison to Flu wrong? 1 Week, 3 Days ago  
JK2006 wrote:
Covid 19 has not destroyed airlines


Tell that to Virgin, Compass, FlyBe etc., etc.

Even tell BA - who've ended their 747 services.


Quantas too, I believe.



 
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#200538
wyot

Re:Is the comparison to Flu wrong? 1 Week, 3 Days ago  
Barney wrote:
JK2006 wrote:
Covid 19 has not destroyed airlines


Tell that to Virgin, Compass, FlyBe etc., etc.

Even tell BA - who've ended their 747 services.


Quantas too, I believe.





You seem to have "accidentally" left the second part of JK's sentence off your quote Barney; which if you "told that" to the CEOs of the major airlines I am sure they would agree with.

If I were you tom JK I would spend any more time you are tempted answering this stuff in that gorgeous pool...

Barney a sincerely meant question (which because social media is so context-less please take as a non aggressive, non sarcastic, genuine, gently asked question): are you actually serious?
 
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#200544
hedda

Re:Is the comparison to Flu wrong? 1 Week, 3 Days ago  
Covid has initiated a global response & destroyed numerous businesses including airlines.

It's pointless to say it's the reaction to Covid that has destroyed them.

And being wise after the event is no answer.

Government is not a perfect science and the world is increasingly run by politicians to benefit corporations where shareholders are more important than the general public.

Then along comes a virus to upset the apple cart which was inevitable with today's profit fanatic politicians,

The obvious response was a total shutdown as China did but..China's economy is attached to the West hence it is vulnerable as well.

Along with the virus is a realignment of the Neo Liberal Capitalist system. How it well end no-one knows.

But if you are foolish enough to elect numpties like Boris and the psycho Trump you almost deserve the calamity.
 
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#200545
Re:Is the comparison to Flu wrong? 1 Week, 3 Days ago  
Ah now Hedda as usual you provide interesting and important additional information. I thought China did NOT have total lockdown; very much regional; indeed only some areas and a few big cities, briefly. And their toll of deaths to cases has been tiny compared to the Death Four. Likewise the USA - far fewer deaths per cases. Yes; that can be because the USA tested more but that's my point; for the vast majority this is a trivial virus. A sledgehammer has been used to crack a nut and the consequences have been appalling.
 
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#200546
hedda

Re:Is the comparison to Flu wrong? 1 Week, 3 Days ago  
China's method of isolating is why it has had the fewest deaths (although we could never be sure of the real; figure)

Literally dragging people off who were sick and nailing up the doors of others so they couldn't leave their homes.

Can't really do that in the West.

you call it trivial but it can't be if 645K have died in 6 months by a virus that is not disappearing and may morph into something even deadlier.

The flu, cancer etc etc have been with us for decades and there is a certainty about them.

Covid is new, hence the uncertainty is scary and troubling.
 
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#200547
Barney

Re:Is the comparison to Flu wrong? 1 Week, 3 Days ago  
wyot wrote:
are you actually serious?


Yes coranovirus was the reason for the collapse of many airlines - and other businesses affiliated to the industry.

Are you serious in thinking that a virus (which infected 16.25m and killed 640k, so far) is trivial? With no vaccine imminent.


 
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#200548
Re:Is the comparison to Flu wrong? 1 Week, 3 Days ago  
Do media tell us daily how Flu is everywhere? How many die globally each day from illness caused by the common cold? How many daily die from cancer? No. But Covid19 is a great story especially when exaggerated. Sledgehammers do crack nuts mind you.

www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/07/25/record-num...every-global-region/
 
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#200549
Re:Is the comparison to Flu wrong? 1 Week, 3 Days ago  
Hedda and Barney; can I repeat; Covid19 is trivial for most people that catch it (like Flu or the common cold). How new it is; how many it contributes to death; what symptoms are - all these are other questions. And of course any illness that kills people is not trivial at all for those who die (or the effect on loved ones). For those - absolutely Covid is NOT trivial. Neither is flu or cold or cancer or sepsis or heart failure.

But for the majority the effects are mild - if at all. For most (estimated at 95% of those who catch it - some say 99%) it is trivial.

Have I made that clear? I keep saying it.
 
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#200550
wyot

Re:Is the comparison to Flu wrong? 1 Week, 3 Days ago  
Barney wrote:
wyot wrote:
are you actually serious?

Are you serious in thinking that a virus (which infected 16.25m and killed 640k, so far) is trivial? With no vaccine imminent.




I have never said it is a trivial virus Barney.

Obviously, on Covid I agree with JK's analysis. And he is correct - indisputably surely? - that for the vast majority who contract it the outcome is trivial.

I think JK's repeated use of the word trivial is good for getting attention but I understand why it is also inflammatory on a quick reading.

Yes I am genuine in my posts, as I believe you are. But I don't think now the twain will ever meet!
 
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#200551
wyot

Re:Is the comparison to Flu wrong? 1 Week, 3 Days ago  
hedda wrote:
Covid has initiated a global response & destroyed numerous businesses including airlines.

It's pointless to say it's the reaction to Covid that has destroyed them.

And being wise after the event is no answer.
.



Why is it pointless to say the reaction to Covid has destroyed businesses?

Is it not important to understand why we have taken such action and avoid doing so again unless we have more compelling evidence that it is necessary?

You seem to believe Covid and our reaction to it are the same thing.

Being wise after the event is the answer to avoiding the same mistakes again - as you point out Covid has not gone away.
 
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#200553
Barney

Re:Is the comparison to Flu wrong? 1 Week, 3 Days ago  
Without warning, the planet was attacked by an unknown, invisible and powerful adversary - often in several locations, simultaneously.

All nations and continents were quickly infected - and responded, as much as their limited information and resources would allow.


To blame the resultant deaths and consequences on the responders - and fighters against this incurable danger - is nothing less, than bizarre.



 
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#200554
Re:Is the comparison to Flu wrong? 1 Week, 3 Days ago  
Not bizarre at all Barney unless you are gullible enough to believe the media. New illnesses arrive regularly and are dealt with, generally, in a sensible & measured way. This one was over hyped by media as a good story and over reacted to by governments. Simples.
 
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#200558
Barney

Re:Is the comparison to Flu wrong? 1 Week, 2 Days ago  
To blame those combating a secret and virulent killer - is similar to condemning a surgeon.

Who has done his upmost - but failed to achieve the desired result, often to save a life.


Using all his skill, knowledge and the facilities/medicines available.

But ultimately seeing the futility of dealing with a mutating, unliving and previously unseen body.



 
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#200561
King Kong

Re:Is the comparison to Flu wrong? 1 Week, 2 Days ago  
You're back-pedalling just like POTAS did on masks.

So you've now decided that you're in favour of lockdowns, albeit on a lighter local level in areas with serious spikes in infections. But why even bother wreaking more economic damage by doing that, when you could just as easily keep all vulnerable people isolated from everybody else in those areas, and let the other 95% catch COVID-19 with trivial consequences?

The reason is because a blanket lockdown with five stages of easing is the most pragmatic and effective thing to do; applying it first at the nationally and then latterly at locally. The alternative of just trying to identify every vulnerable person and taking measures to isolate them is impractical and dangerous. What graded lockdown, mask wearing and social distancing has done is to slow the spread of the virus in order to prevent the healthcare systems from being overwhelmed. Take a look at what has been happening in sunny desert hot Texas if you're in doubt.

In the meantime, let's hope our scientists find a vaccine to this pernicious killer. Until then, we are all going to have to swallow the bitter pill of social distancing, mask wearing and local lockdowns.
 
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#200565
Re:Is the comparison to Flu wrong? 1 Week, 2 Days ago  
Stupid Barney; if a surgeon operates you for cancer and removes a lung when in fact you simply had indigestion, I'd say he was stupid and wrong.
Stupid King Kong; no backtrack. Lockdowns were always going to be mildly effective in lessening the spread if done early on and I said so since Day One but it's a sledgehammer to crack a nut and avoids the obvious answer - protect and treat the vulnerable; elderly & diabetic. Urge THEM to self isolate. Urge others working with them to avoid dangerous contact. Simples.

The spread has hardly been "slowed down". As The Lancet said, it made very little difference. There will be huge increases as the "first wave" ebbs and grows, just like Flu did, until we find a vaccine.

And you'll notice the death count will diminish (as it did with flu) apart from the odd moment such as 2017-2018 (wrong vaccine) when 50,000 died in England & Wales due to Flu related illnesses (like the Covid related illnesses this year).

"So now you've decided...". Read past threads going back to January. I have not changed my opinion at all; merely honed it as further evidence emerges.

Governments have obeyed media over hype to various degrees. With very little difference except in the Death Four where incredible governmental stupidity and bad health care has meant many times more deaths to cases than in the rest of the world.

Quoting tiny figures (thousands) is ludicrous if anybody looks at the actual death figures for all nasty illnesses. Two hundred thousand deaths would be a disaster if taken in a population of 200,000 people. It is a drop in the ocean when talking BILLIONS. For God's sake, people like Barney and King Kong, stop spouting media promoted cliches and start seeing the truth.
 
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#200566
md

Re:Is the comparison to Flu wrong? 1 Week, 2 Days ago  
Fear is the biggest killer of all. Remember the Parsons Green train bombing incident of 2017? Most of the injuries were caused by the crush that followed. Responses to bombs and death threats prior to 7/7 and 9/11 were a lot calmer. Politicians took greater pains to allay fear and were more inclined to treat adults as adults and not as children.

The Covid-19 media stories focus almost exclusively on cases and deaths. Social media helps fan the fear arising from this lopsided approach. Reporting the number of recoveries would help to reduce the fear and stress levels. You have to go to other places on the internet such as the John Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Centre to find this information.
 
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#200569
Green Man

Re:Is the comparison to Flu wrong? 1 Week, 2 Days ago  
When you fart JK, do your tightie whites capture every droplet and gas particle ? No, of course not and not the even the face coverings do.

I was in the town yesterday, the amount of people not wearing masks was only to be expected. Groups of youths going round saying "we're exempt from wearing them".

In some shops some people put masks up higher to cover their faces. I don't know how pawnbrokers are going to identify crooks and especially some high end jewellers. I suppose people can wear a burka and get religion immunity even if you're not. When women wearing them they all look the same, just like the fat, bald headed football fans.
 
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#200571
wyot

Re:Is the comparison to Flu wrong? 1 Week, 2 Days ago  
md wrote:
Reporting the number of recoveries would help to reduce the fear and stress levels. You have to go to other places on the internet such as the John Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Centre to find this information.

Really good point md and illustration of media priorities.

A lot of suggestible folk have been traumatised by their daily bombardment of horror stories (which could just as readily be about road accidents or air pollution effects of course...) and the mental health of many I suspect will have been ruined as a result of irresponsible media coverage streaming all over their phones day and night...
 
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#200572
Honey

Re:Is the comparison to Flu wrong? 1 Week, 2 Days ago  
JK2006 wrote:
Stupid Barney; if a surgeon operates you for cancer and removes a lung when in fact you simply had indigestion, I'd say he was stupid and wrong.
Stupid King Kong; no backtrack. Lockdowns were always going to be mildly effective in lessening the spread if done early on and I said so since Day One but it's a sledgehammer to crack a nut and avoids the obvious answer - protect and treat the vulnerable; elderly & diabetic. Urge THEM to self isolate. Urge others working with them to avoid dangerous contact. Simples.

The spread has hardly been "slowed down". As The Lancet said, it made very little difference. There will be huge increases as the "first wave" ebbs and grows, just like Flu did, until we find a vaccine.

And you'll notice the death count will diminish (as it did with flu) apart from the odd moment such as 2017-2018 (wrong vaccine) when 50,000 died in England & Wales due to Flu related illnesses (like the Covid related illnesses this year).

"So now you've decided...". Read past threads going back to January. I have not changed my opinion at all; merely honed it as further evidence emerges.

Governments have obeyed media over hype to various degrees. With very little difference except in the Death Four where incredible governmental stupidity and bad health care has meant many times more deaths to cases than in the rest of the world.

Quoting tiny figures (thousands) is ludicrous if anybody looks at the actual death figures for all nasty illnesses. Two hundred thousand deaths would be a disaster if taken in a population of 200,000 people. It is a drop in the ocean when talking BILLIONS. For God's sake, people like Barney and King Kong, stop spouting media promoted cliches and start seeing the truth.


Urge them to self isolate? For ever?
They can sod off!
I would be quite happy if people just kept the hell away from me, instead of looming and breathing,thinking its ok because they've got a j-cloth on their gob.
 
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