In a coma but no poison found and declared too sick to travel from the world class medical facility (probably not) in Siberia. Litvinenko, Salisbury, others (link below) now this. There must be a reason for choosing a method that makes someone very ill rather than killing them immediately. Sending a message? "Look what we can do"?

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53857563

"A Brief History of Attempted Russian Assassinations by Poison"
foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/09/a-brief-his...sinations-by-poison/

No sign of poison or skulduggery. Navalny isn't in any danger and is getting better, slowly. A full recovery is anticipated.

Perhaps he didn't do so, but leaving your drink unattended anywhere is dangerous. Passers-by can easily add something for no reason.

After all we don't leave our luggage unattended - and ensure that all entries to our abodes are secure before travelling.

No sign of poison?

The hospital treating Russian opposition leader Alexey Navalny says tests indicate that he was poisoned.

Berlin's Charite Hospital noted that the Kremlin critic was suffering from "intoxication by a substance from the group of cholinesterase inhibitors."

edition.cnn.com/2020/08/24/europe/alexey...-grm-intl/index.html

The Berlin hospital treating the seriously ill Russian opposition leader, Alexei Navalny, says he appears to have been poisoned.

The Charité hospital released a statement saying "clinical evidence suggests an intoxication through a substance belonging to the group of cholinesterase inhibitors".

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53892900

What are the chances of this particular man being poisoned by an agent of the Russian state, when there's a whole slew of similar cases involving opposition figures, versus the chances of being poisoned by a passer-by? Not hard to work out which would be more likely!

Admiral Benbow wrote:
No sign of poison or skulduggery. Navalny isn't in any danger and is getting better, slowly. A full recovery is anticipated.

Perhaps he didn't do so, but leaving your drink unattended anywhere is dangerous. Passers-by can easily add something for no reason.

After all we don't leave our luggage unattended - and ensure that all entries to our abodes are secure before travelling.

Always cover up your drink bottle with your thumb in a club or pub. I find Jo posts are getting more mundane. Whilst I don't agree Wyot and some things I agree with him on others, so there's a balance.

Wyot seems to a varied taste in music and no doubt has an obsecure collection of 8 tracks in the living room.

I have never seen Jo post anything on music unless there's some scandal. I couldn't care less if Jo is far left.

Green Man wrote:
Admiral Benbow wrote:
No sign of poison or skulduggery. Navalny isn't in any danger and is getting better, slowly. A full recovery is anticipated.

Perhaps he didn't do so, but leaving your drink unattended anywhere is dangerous. Passers-by can easily add something for no reason.

After all we don't leave our luggage unattended - and ensure that all entries to our abodes are secure before travelling.

Always cover up your drink bottle with your thumb in a club or pub. I find Jo posts are getting more mundane. Whilst I don't agree Wyot and some things I agree with him on others, so there's a balance.

Wyot seems to a varied taste in music and no doubt has an obsecure collection of 8 tracks in the living room.

I have never seen Jo post anything on music unless there's some scandal. I couldn't care less if Jo is far left.

Jo is not here simply for your entertainment. This is not a posting competition and you are not Simon Cowell.

I enjoy her posts, so if you don't like them, skip on by and shut up!

Honey wrote:
Green Man wrote:
Admiral Benbow wrote:
No sign of poison or skulduggery. Navalny isn't in any danger and is getting better, slowly. A full recovery is anticipated.

Perhaps he didn't do so, but leaving your drink unattended anywhere is dangerous. Passers-by can easily add something for no reason.

After all we don't leave our luggage unattended - and ensure that all entries to our abodes are secure before travelling.

Always cover up your drink bottle with your thumb in a club or pub. I find Jo posts are getting more mundane. Whilst I don't agree Wyot and some things I agree with him on others, so there's a balance.

Wyot seems to a varied taste in music and no doubt has an obsecure collection of 8 tracks in the living room.

I have never seen Jo post anything on music unless there's some scandal. I couldn't care less if Jo is far left.

Jo is not here simply for your entertainment. This is not a posting competition and you are not Simon Cowell.

I enjoy her posts, so if you don't like them, skip on by and shut up!

Not even Simon Cowell wants to be Simon Cowell.

Jo wrote:
No sign of poison?

The hospital treating Russian opposition leader Alexey Navalny says tests indicate that he was poisoned.

Berlin's Charite Hospital noted that the Kremlin critic was suffering from "intoxication by a substance from the group of cholinesterase inhibitors."

edition.cnn.com/2020/08/24/europe/alexey...-grm-intl/index.html

The Berlin hospital treating the seriously ill Russian opposition leader, Alexei Navalny, says he appears to have been poisoned.

The Charité hospital released a statement saying "clinical evidence suggests an intoxication through a substance belonging to the group of cholinesterase inhibitors".

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53892900

What are the chances of this particular man being poisoned by an agent of the Russian state, when there's a whole slew of similar cases involving opposition figures, versus the chances of being poisoned by a passer-by? Not hard to work out which would be more likely!



Many drugs are poisons. Warfarin, a widely used blood thinner for instance. CI's are used to treat many conditions including dementia.

Without knowing Navalny's medical history, it is extremely difficult to accurately and remotely diagnose the affects of a particular drug.

Green Man wrote:
[quote]Admiral Benbow wrote:


Wyot seems to a varied taste in music and no doubt has an obsecure collection of 8 tracks in the living room.


I think I would be a disappointment to you GM. I am not the muso you suspect.

Most of the music I listen to these days is classical/opera, and a few artists, e.g Van Morrison, Nick Cave.

I stumbled on this site cos I really enjoyed Entertainment USA when I was younger - not through a love of 60s/70s pop music.

You can see from above why I don't contribute to the music side on the site.

But I am sure we all post here for different reasons; though I promise I am trying to move away from my "specialism" of Covid 19

Jo wrote:
No sign of poison?

Not hard to work out which would be more likely!


In themselves, CI's aren't poisons, like Arsenic which is used to treat promyelocytic leukaemia. The Yew Plant can also stop certain cancers from progressing and Foxglove helps strengthen the heart, control its rhythms and improves circulation.

Tirofabin, a blood thinner, is created from the African saw-scaled viper's venom, And the diabetes drug Exenatide, which helps the body produce insulin, comes from the venomous saliva of the Gila monster lizard.

Often, when these very therapeutic substances are found, false accusers come into play again. And say, for example, that it must be the Russians and are helped by a gullible and uninformed media industry and public.

Germany has determined that Navalny was poisoned with Novichok, as used in Salisbury.

BBC: Alexei Navalny poisoned with Novichok - Germany

Russian opposition politician Alexei Navalny was poisoned with a Novichok nerve agent, Germany's government says.

It said toxicology tests at a military laboratory showed ""unequivocal proof" of an agent from the Novichok group.

Mr Navalny was airlifted to Berlin for treatment after falling ill during a flight in Russia's Siberia region last month. He has been in a coma since.

His team says he was poisoned on President Vladimir Putin's orders. The Kremlin has dismissed the allegation.
Translation of Kremlin reaction: "na na na na na!"

Green Man wrote:
...I find Jo posts are getting more mundane....I have never seen Jo post anything on music unless there's some scandal....
Maybe you think the poisoning of Russian opposition figures is mundane. I don't. As for music, I have my preferences but discussing music doesn't interest me. Everyone has their own interests and as Honey points out - thanks, Honey - if you don't like my posts you don't have to read them.

Jo wrote:
Germany has determined that Navalny was poisoned with Novichok, as used in Salisbury.


Yes and the question is by whom, as this substance has been available to many government agencies for over a quarter of a century. Including Iran and the Czech Republic for example.

After the Salisbury and other occurrences, it seems illogical for Putin and Russia to use the same obnoxious substance to neutralise a known critic and enemy who was clearly in the public eye.

Admiral Benbow wrote:
Jo wrote:
Germany has determined that Navalny was poisoned with Novichok, as used in Salisbury.


Yes and the question is by whom, as this substance has been available to many government agencies for over a quarter of a century. Including Iran and the Czech Republic for example.

After the Salisbury and other occurrences, it seems illogical for Putin and Russia to use the same obnoxious substance to neutralise a known critic and enemy who was clearly in the public eye.

I agree, it's so easy to blame Russia for everything. Russian authorities are no saints but again what leader actually is?

Merkel seems to know a lot about this.

Admiral Benbow wrote:
Jo wrote:
Germany has determined that Navalny was poisoned with Novichok, as used in Salisbury.


Yes and the question is by whom, as this substance has been available to many government agencies for over a quarter of a century. Including Iran and the Czech Republic for example.

After the Salisbury and other occurrences, it seems illogical for Putin and Russia to use the same obnoxious substance to neutralise a known critic and enemy who was clearly in the public eye.



If you can get away with an audacious act, why wouldn't you do it again?

That's a good point, Honey. I think it is logical to use the same substance if you want to send a message that opponents will not escape and will be made to suffer, while denying it of course.

I wonder if Navalny is going to make a proper recovery. The people in Salisbury would have got it on their skin if it was smeared on a door handle, even the woman who died apparently "only" sprayed it on her skin from the perfume bottle, but if Navalny drank it in tea he would have ingested it.