As I predicted, the smoking ban is causing huge losses in pubs etc across the country. Many pubs are now openly flouting the ban in order to survive.

BBC North has been running a campaign about this and last night claimed to have had more response to this issue that to any other issue ever featured !

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7170000/newsid_7179200/7179293.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&news=1&bbcws=1

So are you saying the ban should be reversed?

Surely no sane individual would want this (apart from rabid agitators and pub owners!!!). The health benefits to the nation must outweigh the financial impact on some publicans.

I think I read something sowmewhere about a 10% reduction in UK cigarette sales since the ban was introduced. I'm not sure how accurate this is but if it's true surely this can only be a good thing.

I AM still a smoker, but I can't tell you how much more pleaseant it is to be able to go to the pub and not come out stinking like a five-day-old ashtray.

I also welcome the fact that I'm smoking less these days and yes, it's cos of the ban. Again, surely this can only be a good thing, no...?

Cheers,
Pete

Maybe it's better to be poor than to die of cancer.

Pete Clarke wrote:
So are you saying the ban should be reversed?

Surely no sane individual would want this (apart from rabid agitators and pub owners!!!). The health benefits to the nation must outweigh the financial impact on some publicans.


I said at the time that this would lead to massive pub closures and the loss of thousands of jobs.

As a non-smoker (ever) I have no axe to grind - but do find it rather strange that people (non-smokers) are forcing their wishes onto others (smokers).

If pubs etc had NEVER been used for smoking then there might be an argument ... but pubs were where you actually went to smoke ! (My local has the words "Smoke Room" etched into the glass on some windows !)

It's rather like saying you want praying banned in all churches from now on - so that some people don't have their chatting disturbed !!

The pro-ban lobby all argued that this would be good for the industry - that it would save lives (protecting bar staff etc) and boost the industry (as people would now go in droves to these lovely clean smoke-free venues. All pubs would double their takings immediately, if you listened to them !

The reality is that pubs are closing down, and the staff, although "now protected" - are also out of a job !

But thats what happens when you listen to the fascist police.

Another link to yet another pub flouting the ban -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7180000/newsid_7180100/7180118.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&news=1&bbcws=1

He's flouting the ban because it "interferes with people's human rights"...

Your argument is flawed ITK. Opium Dens used to be very legal, and that's where people used to go to to get c*nted on smack - 'cos that's where they went when they wanted to do that.

Smack is no longer legal, and I'll bet there were some people complaining back when it was outlawed.

Although, back then, it would have been difficult to invoke the human rights argument as human rights didn't really exisit in those days...

I've noticed that in most of your posts regading the ban, you've been banging on about people's right to smoke in pubs...

You obviously do not get it that this issue is far, far bigger than this.

Smoking in pubs still seems much more civilized than gathering in doorways of such places.

Pete Clarke wrote:
He's flouting the ban because it "interferes with people's human rights"...

Your argument is flawed ITK. Opium Dens used to be very legal, and that's where people used to go to to get c*nted on smack - 'cos that's where they went when they wanted to do that.

Smack is no longer legal, and I'll bet there were some people complaining back when it was outlawed.

You are right - but the Chief Constable of North Wales (someone called Meredith, I think) has said he believes ALL drugs will be legal within 10 years. Welcome back, opium dens !

Just as smoking in pubs is now illegal (although clearly being ignorred) this law can be repealed also.

I've noticed that in most of your posts regading the ban, you've been banging on about people's right to smoke in pubs...

You obviously do not get it that this issue is far, far bigger than this.

What bigger picture? Are you speaking of smoking generally - as this is a far bigger subject and my post is specifically about banning smoking from places where people have traditionally smoked !

Many non-smokers - who have previously been in favour of a pub-ban - will soon be calling for smoking to be re-introduced, when their only local pub disappears !

And generally - non pubs - other non smokers will also be hoping that people take up smoking again in their millions when THEY have to make-up the shortfall in lost revenues from smoking taxes !

The trouble will all you mamby-pambys is that you open your mouths - and then regret the consequences !!!!

I am a non smoker (always have been), however since the weather has got worse more and more people are staying at home due to the fact that they can't be bothered standing outside in the rain and cold to have a cigarette.
My local Wetherspoons pub is like a morgue most nights of the week and not much better on a weekend. I still believe that it would be fine to have a smoking area and no smoking area in pubs rather than ban it altogether.
Its all very well the government extending pubs opening hours but soon enough there will hardly be any people in them due to all the restrictions in place.
The next thing to happen will be zero tolerance on drinking and driving.
Looks like an interesting future ahead in our pubs, with everyone staring at the walls sipping orange juice.

Go smoke in the alley. Then I can have someone to talk to while I smoke my pot.

All your points are spot on, ITK.

Pubs had every right to declare themselves smoke free. Why did they not do this? Because it was not what the majority wanted. What would have been wrong with forcing pubs to have smoking and no smoking areas? Even though 75% of the population don't smoke, I always found the only place you could ever get a seat was in the no smoking area of pubs. It's all about this government's love of control. The so-called Nanny state. Some may welcome the ban. They might not be so happy when the next unhealthy pastime is banned. What next? Alcohol, any foodstuff deemed to be unhealthy, environmentally unfriendly vehicles etc. Before long every aspect of our private lives will be interfered with.

Our freedom is being dismantled piece by piece. It's early days, but our apathy has already made this trend almost irreversible. So few people recognize this that it makes me despair.

As for people smoking less, the ban has caused me to smoke more through the stress it has caused me. Ironically, it has halved my alcohol consumption, as I can't be bothered to go out very often, and when I do, the boredom of not being able to light up, or the misery of having to stand in the rain and cold to do so, forces me to leave early.

One day, all our activities will be monitored-every morsel of food and drop of drink we ingest. Everyone might live to 100(in poverty, as pension provision would collapse) and it will feel like 200. We are becoming so aware about health issues, all want to live forever, but we have forgotten about the joy of life. Sad.

Thanks, Anthony.

Breweries have always been entrepreneurial, and would have launched many smoke-free pubs over the years IF they believed there was a market for them.

They didn't because they knew it was commercial suicide.

I just quit new year,so i'm divided on the merits.
Yes I may well go into pubs more if they're non smoking,but pubs are traditionally smoking places,and that tradition should be respected.
Afterall most pubs used to have a 'smoke room',alongside a G.O(Gents Only),public bar for workers,and lounge for taking the ladies.
Now thanks to greedy brewery officials most pubs are pretending to be resturants,hence the logic of the smoking ban.
I say the choice should be left up to individual bars,we can easily vote with our feet,and frequent the places we feel best fit our needs.

I can only speak about my own region, but the pubs round here have genuinely increased their business since the smoking ban. That might be pure coincidence and due to other factors, but they certainly haven't suffered any loss following the legislation.

I also hear reports from Ireland, which banned smoking in pubs long before we did, that after an initial dip in trade the pubs are now as busy as they ever were.

It amuses me when smokers argue that they only smoke one cigarette while in the pub. If there are ten other smokers in the same room, then each smoker will also be taking in the fumes equal to an extra five cigarettes, so the ban is also for their benefit. I personally avoided pubs which were packed with smokers. Now I can go visit more often, and I'm not alone in that. Also, known smokers of my aquaintance still visit the pubs and manage to survive without drawing on their ciggies. For most it was more of a habit than a necessity. They still enjoy their night out, and they go home without stinking of stale ash.

ITK, I don't think anyone ever died from secondary praying. That's not exactly a reasonable comparison.

Solihull Exile wrote:
I say the choice should be left up to individual bars,we can easily vote with our feet,and frequent the places we feel best fit our needs.

Exactly !

(Good luck with giving up, btw !)

I don't know which region you live in, Al, but since the ban came in, three out of the fourteen pubs in my small town have already closed.

I don't know which smokers said they only smoked one fag in a pub, but I used to smoke loads and loved every one of them, and I certainly don't appreciate people telling me what is or isn't for my benefit. I'm fully aware of the health risks. I gave up smoking for three months in 1989, the most miserable and depressing three months of my life, and decided to start smoking again and have never looked back. And I don't still enjoy my night out in a pub. It's an ordeal, and I only do it once in a while, so as not to lose touch with my friends and end up with no social life.

By the way, there is no reliable medical evidence to prove the evils of passive smoking. If a non-smoker shares a house with a chain smoker, then maybe, but sitting in a non-smoking area of a pub with some smokers in the distance? I don't think so. 99% of lung cancer victims are smokers, and lung cancer existed before tobacco was smoked. Do the math, as the Yankers say!

Al wrote:
I can only speak about my own region, but the pubs round here have genuinely increased their business since the smoking ban. That might be pure coincidence and due to other factors, but they certainly haven't suffered any loss following the legislation.

Earnst & Young today said firms issuing profit warnings (ie warning about a slump in trade) have rocketed - and at the top0 of the list is the brewing / leisure industry.

<< The retail sector suffered badly, with an annual total of a record breaking 47 profit warnings, and so too did the leisure industry, including pub chains.

Ernst & Young said wet weather and "regulatory changes" like the smoking ban were largely to blame for deterring drinkers. >>>

Taken from - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7185603.stm

That doesn't sound like a huge success to me !

I mentioned earlier, that breweries are quite good at guaging their customers - if at any time they thought smoke-free pubs would work - why have they never introduced them? Because they knew it was commercial suicide !

Well my local is dong ok so far. Same old regulars plus a few newbies. Nothing seems to have changed here apart from the air being cleaner. Can't complain.