Pete Clarke wrote:
Yes, you're absolutely right ITK.

But it is you who has no shame.

JK, I'd suggest this was a post you should have chosen not to put up.

I am not one for censorship, but this idiot has to be stopped on occassion.

Hello Pete - I was wondering where you were !

Tell me ... WHO decides what is censored and what isn't ?

(PS - Like Rusty, can you please send your address?)

JK2006 wrote:
Well Pete, I don't always agree with ITK but I'm delighted he raises some topics others dare not touch and when one side of this argument (see the Sun today) go to one extreme I think it's good that someone goes to the other.

I, like most of you, don't agree that anyone deserves to die and ITK's language did go well over the top in his initial post but it has provoked more balanced discussion about the topic which now - two days later - has become the front page tabloid issue.

Especially as more and more relatives of both the dead women and Mr Wright are busy prostituting themselves all over the meejah (for loadsamoney I suspect) howling for vengeance, blood, revenge and death (whilst, I'm sure, pocketing large sums to do so... let's see the Sundays tomorrow).

"The sweet little girl I loved"... type crap.

JK - Did you see the father of Mr Wright on last night's News? Utterly devastated and completely ashamed of the crimes his son has committed. My heart went out to him.

Contrast that now with the rest of the parents who are on the gravy train.

I did see him ITK and was sad that, if a son swears to his father that he is innocent, that father allows the dodgy police and legal systems to convince him otherwise.

And even if Wright is guilty, paternal love should forgive him and try to make the rest of his life more bearable.

JK2006 wrote:
paternal love should forgive him and try to make the rest of his life more bearable.

I strongly suspect that you are speaking from personal experience there, JK. Time does heal ....

In The Know wrote:
[quote]Rusty wrote:
[quote]A rather desperate clutching at straws ITK to justify your, shall we say

Anthony wrote:
No, send them round to mine instead, ITK. A few scantily clad whores outside my house would brighten up my aged and dull celibate lifestyle no end!

To rescue my post from being of an entirely inappropriate tone, what I would say is that this country needs a clean legalized prostitution system.

JK's view of two people making a mutually agreeable transaction is fine but lets not forget the seedy and dangerous world which surrounds our red light areas.

Our moral majority politicians love to get mileage out of trying to stamp it out. How they hope to do this after thousands of years of failure beats me. It's time they grew up and became realistic.

Anthony - you are the FIRST person on this thread of offer even a modicum of a solution (the others seem to think that if its not black then it must be white and there can be nothing inbetween).

NOT ONE poster has suggested an alternative - they all seem to think that IF these girls fund their drug-taking by prostitution then they should simply be left to get on with it.

Not one suggested counselling / rehabilitation etc. Not one suggests doing something to help them off their drug habit. (I'd suggest that some of them - the girls that it, not the posters - actually rather like their lifestyles, but that would be controversial and as you know, that's not me !!!!)

Whatever the solutions, the very FIRST step should be getting them OFF the streets.

I knew I'd seen something touching this issue before, so I scrolled down and found JC's post about the exploitation of grief by the media. There were no responses to that one, but that widow set the ball rolling with her "I'd happily be the executioner" comments.

We expect this from grieving relatives, although I still salute the mother who publicly forgave the killers of her son a while back. On BBC's Question Time a man who supported the death penalty was asked if he would be willing to do the deed. He said yes. I was hoping someone would ask him how he'd feel if the person he'd killed turned out the be innocent. Unfortunately nobody did.

The Cat wrote:
although I still salute the mother who publicly forgave the killers of her son a while back.

Cat

That would be the mother of Anthony Walker - hacked to death in Liverpool. What an inspiration she is to us all.

Fully agree we need a balance...but must that balance be achieved by vile and insulting language aimed at innocent murder victims?
Still time to move forward...those comments have caused a lot of negativity to ITK,and he has been running around trying to put that right...rather than adding to an otherwise serious debate.
Still talking of Papa wright,well if he believes his son is guilty speaks volumes...but I personally will reserve judgement..the evidence was not so great...but still important.
Papa wright has every reason to be happier than the parents of the murder victims..at least his son is alive...unlike the parents of the victims...and who can blame them for wanting justice? Even if that justice may be directed at the wrong person..
...if they can get a few bob from the papers..bring a little comfort into their depressing lives then I for one begrudge them not...a murdered daughter is a hard way to earn it!
This thread should really be concentrating on the question of guilt..too many convictions on what has later been seen as flimsy evidence...and places like this are great for firing up the debate...and challenging the norms...as should be the case in a civilised democracy.

...and who can blame them for wanting justice? Even if that justice may be directed at the wrong person..

I'd "stop digging" if I were you, SE !

"I'd "stop digging" if I were you, SE !"

Well as you're not me...
If I can survive several stints in Iraq I really think I should be the judge of when the digging should stop.

And I take it that you (doubtless a paragon of virtue, an upholder of moral rectitude, a flawless and righteous high-achiever) were wholly responsible for the fact that you didn't happen to be born into poverty, or that you didn't become trapped in a cycle of abuse, low self-esteem and despair? You're spending significant time loitering in the chat room of a convicted pederast, spewing out ill-informed bigotry and prejudice - perhaps you are not best placed to be claiming any moral high ground here

All of which tells us that there are some people so obnoxious, stupid, ignorant, arrogant, contemptuous of the rights and feelings of others, blinkered to the workings of the real world, and consumed with knee-jerk loathing for anything and anyone beyond their immediate sphere of reference, that attempting to reason with them is pointless. Credit to Solihull Exile for trying mind you

Voice Of Passing Reason wrote:
All of which tells us that there are some people so obnoxious, stupid, ignorant, arrogant, contemptuous of the rights and feelings of others, blinkered to the workings of the real world, and consumed with knee-jerk loathing for anything and anyone beyond their immediate sphere of reference, that attempting to reason with them is pointless. Credit to Solihull Exile for trying mind you
+1 ...as I believe the is the vernacular nowadays.

You cannot use reason to change an opinion that was not formed by reason.

A Passing Voice Of Reason wrote:
And I take it that you (doubtless a paragon of virtue, an upholder of moral rectitude, a flawless and righteous high-achiever)

yes, I'm ALL of those !

were wholly responsible for the fact that you didn't happen to be born into poverty, or that you didn't become trapped in a cycle of abuse, low self-esteem and despair?

many people were - but have managed to seek help and assistance and improve their lot WITHOUT reducing areas to further social depravation and exposing people (and children) to their "ways" (and used condoms / needles etc)

You're spending significant time loitering in the chat room of a convicted pederast,

still awaiting an appeal process !

spewing out ill-informed bigotry and prejudice - perhaps you are not best placed to be claiming any moral high ground here

I have my faults (very very few, of course) but tell me, HOW are we helping the people that you defend by allowing them to continue to sink into the depths of drugs, disease and violence that you seem to want them to ?

Some good points of course,and no doubt those without sin will already have cast them aside...so while we probally agree with most of it,you could well be wasting your time talking to those who already have a thick set opinion..even if they have never been involved in that world first hand..and as such able to form a more complete opinion.
But...but do not please drag JK into this,the one thing we are all here for is because we all have deep distrust of his conviction,especially as a lot of the evidence was dismissed during the trial as flawed...and as the EU also feels the conviction is unsafe...and requires an appeal at a higher level.
But thanks for posting your opinion.And hopefully hang around,post your thoughts,and most importantly join us in fighting for justice.

"...many girls are druggies,exploited by evil pimps,and can get off both the game and drugs with help"

Of course this was mentioned...but the thread was not about how to help prostitutes,but about a murder conviction.
I lived amongst these people for 5 years,and there are a variety of reasons they get involved..and a variety of reasons they either can,or cannot get off it.However you do need to gain their trust to do this,and using abusive terms will never achieve that.
But the thing I do think we all have common ground on is legalisation.Not a perfect solution to the problem,but one that does allow for a measure of legal control.
Systems in Germany/Holland have proved useful examples,& have proved that the public will tolerate it,but want a say in how it is run,and what is permissable.
Legislation of hard drugs for addicts is a proven measure to reduce crime.The high black market costs being a major factor in prostitutes need for work.
I once sat it 'Arthur's Bar,Lumb Lane,Bradford,chatting to a girl who proceeded to smoke over $400 of crack in the time I had 2 drinks...she then returned to the Lane to raise more money for the evil filth...desperation can lead to all kinds of things never dreamt about before.
Not an easy subject,and you will never solve of problem of the 'oldest profession',but you can at leastalter how we all interact,and try to protect the people whose lives are affected by this,both residents in areas they work,customers who may be abused/robbed,and the girls..who no doubt suffer from the many nasty effects of their profession.

Hey ITK, have you seen The Life of Brian?

I'm sure you have, and I'm sure you remember the 'stoning scene'...?

You know, the one where all the birds turned up wearing false beards, just so that they could lob bricks at some poor, unfortunate victim of ignorance & bigotry...?

It is very funny scene, no...?

This messageboard... It's your false beard, isn't it...?

Pete Clarke wrote:
Hey ITK, have you seen The Life of Brian?

I'm sure you have, and I'm sure you remember the 'stoning scene'...?

You know, the one where all the birds turned up wearing false beards, just so that they could lob bricks at some poor, unfortunate victim of ignorance & bigotry...?

It is very funny scene, no...?

This messageboard... It's your false beard, isn't it...?

Yes, Pete - seen it (got the video). Not watched for some time so maybe I'll catch up?

Just been watching an episode of Skins (which I find quite interesting but not entirely sure why).

Glad to see that you are thinking of me - I have that effect on people. Will think about what you said.

Solihull Exile wrote:
But the thing I do think we all have common ground on is legalisation.Not a perfect solution to the problem,but one that does allow for a measure of legal control.
Systems in Germany/Holland have proved useful examples,& have proved that the public will tolerate it,but want a say in how it is run,and what is permissable.

What do you think of the recent law change in Sweden, where the "customer" has been criminalised?
Their thinking is that if you take away the demand the supply will dry up?

It's simply no good saying that these girls are on the game because they are on drugs. You HAVE to do something about it otherwise they will slide into every greater despair. Getting them off the streets would be a good start .....