I don't go along with those praising Mugabe though I do wonder whether he is quite the monster depicted - I really do not trust either the honesty or the accuracy of the media - but Morgan Tsvangirai looks pretty suspect to me too.

A great deal of "opposition leaders" in dictatorships are tomorrow's autocrats.

I think it's up to the people of Zimbabwe to choose their leaders.

One thing that seems fairly obvious is that, if Mugabe had won the election he'd have been quick to announce the results. That they are having a recount without announcing most of the results suggests that he lost.

It's possible that the media do paint an innacurate picture. They generally do. But I'm sure that's of secondary importance to the people of Zimbabwe.

I think you'll find that he IS the monster depicted.

You cannot seriously expect people to believe that this is being cooked up by the media.

You don't fo along with those who are praising him? Well, you went on record here a few weeks ago stating that he was a man you just had to admire.

Are you fucking nuts?

No Pete, I never said you had to admire Mugabe. You either intentionally or accidentally misunderstood me.

But I did pose the question - is he the monster we all believe?

I really trust the media less and less every day.

Is it a good story? Nothing else matters.

You said, on April Fools Day: "Quite like the Mugabe strategy - A runoff will quite understandably give him more of the third place, ex government candidate, votes than the Opposition, so he wins by 51% to 49%. Clever trick. You have to admire the man."

As I said, are you fucking nuts (or was this simply a misguided attempt at an April Fools joke)?

By the way, what exactly is suspect about Tsvangirai?

is it the fact that he has kept his dignity intact throughout this whole sorry saga...? Is it the fact that he was amlomst killed by Mugabe's thugs, yet demonstrated dignity humility in the face of said thuggery.

Or, is it basically 'cos he is a black African?

I doubt anyone involved in Zimbawe politics is a cleanskin.

Oh dear Pete; I must remember to make irony more obvious.

Morgan? Looks dodgy to me. Let's see, if he gets in, what he's like in ten years time.

Remember when we backed Saddam?

So, now you're comparing him to Saddam? On what basis?

It is completely different and you obvously have no idea what you are talking about.

Oh dear Pete I had better be more clear.
Years ago the West backed Saddam but as he ruled he became, we gather, cruel, corrupt and wicked.

It may be that Morgan, if he gains power in Zimbabwe, will be a fine, decent, honourable ruler who will bring peace and prosperity to his country.

I have no evidence to the contrary and indeed I hope that is so.

I simply commented that I am not entirely convinced that Morgan is 100% a good egg.

Yes, admiring Mugabe's strategy is not the same as admiring Mugabe, just as acknowledging the way Hitler got the trains to run on time is not the same as admiring his other policies. It's fairly simple to understand the difference.

Our approval of world leaders mostly depends on whether we can use them as allies or not. Once they've outserved their usefulness they are fair game.

Oh yes of course, how very silly of me. Very admirable strategy. Voter intimidation, beatings, arresting and killing the opposition. Oh yeah, really fucking admirable, that is.

There you go... The west backed Saddam, not the Iraqi people....

The people of Zimbabwe have chosen their new leader - it wasn't Dubya or Broon who chose him.

Therefore, you cannot compare the two...