Abu Izzadeen's main crime of "inciting" terrorism seems hardly more than putting the other point of view.
And the media hook - that he dared to heckle Home Secretary John Smith - what's all that about? Shouldn't we be encouraging people to heckle establishment thugs?

We really are in a very dangerous state.

err ... wasn't advocating the invasion of Iraq (based on dodgy dossiers and phoney claims) also an incitement?

How long before we have police at polling station - a la Zimbabwe - to make sure we vote the right way?

The short clip I heard on the radio - which may or may not represent the whole - was quite clearly inciting, encouraging and justifying acts of terrorism.

It was certainly far beyond merely "putting the other view".

I agree with the underlying principle of what JK and ITK are saying, but this is not an example which illustrates it.

Zooloo is quite right. What these Islamist extremists believe really is way beyond putting the other view.

I'm all for tolerance and freedom of speech, but when it comes to insane 7th Century beliefs, I'll happily make an exception. I do believe we are having our human rights gradually eroded, and have said so on many occasions, but we are talking about people who believe in treating women like animals, executing homosexuals, adulterers, infidels, Jews, and anyone else who won't convert to their uncivilized ways. And, yes, they do advocate terrorism.

If they had their way, life would be infinitely worse than anything even our British politicians could inflict upon us.

Don't forget, Anthony, that many on "this side" are religious fanatics too, and "believe" they are doing God's work, with just as much vigor as any Islamist.

In The Know wrote:
Don't forget, Anthony, that many on "this side" are religious fanatics too, and "believe" they are doing God's work, with just as much vigor as any Islamist.
Indeed it is scary that any non-retarded person actually believes in sky-fairies and even more scary when those people are in any position of authority.

It's slightly pleasing that someone like Tony Blair kept his man-in-the-sky delusion quiet, although only because he thinks it would go against him.

What we see with people like Bush who eagerly claim their politics are "inspired" by his man-in-the-sky is troubling. How somebody with such an idiotic delusion is taken seriously at all is a sad reflection of many people's inability to think.

All of these idiotic superstitions should be condemned which ever brand of the "one truth" it may be.

zooloo wrote:
It's slightly pleasing that someone like Tony Blair kept his man-in-the-sky delusion quiet, although only because he thinks it would go against him.

What we see with people like Bush who eagerly claim their politics are "inspired" by his man-in-the-sky is troubling.

Interesting that you don't see B-Liar's deceit (in keeping his true beliefs and motivation) secret, to be troubling?

How genuine can his "beliefs" really be - when he keeps them secret for political gain?

zooloo wrote:

Indeed it is scary that any non-retarded person actually believes in sky-fairies and even more scary when those people are in any position of authority.

All of these idiotic superstitions should be condemned which ever brand of the "one truth" it may be.
I agree 100%. Good thing Jesus isn't the son of God, or he'd be furious at what is being done in his name.

Apart from the fact they are both huge con tricks, I do think there is a distinction between Christianity and Islam though. Atrocities such as the illegal invasion of Iraq are carried out by regimes infected with Christianity, but it is arguable to what extent the "Christian" aspect of the perpetrators is responsible for their actions. The states themselves are secular after all.

Islamic extremists, on the other hand, define themselves entirely by their religion, and their book, which clearly states that all infidels should be killed if they cannot be persuaded or coerced to convert.

I'm in favour of a free society where people are allowed to believe in whatever they want, so long as it does no harm to others. I'm not in favour of condemning anyone's beliefs or superstitions. The next step would be to condemn other forms of thinking and end up with a nation of robots.

I can never understand why those who don't believe in God are so against other people who do. Freedom of choice and expression should be valued and protected. There are some barmy religions, but I would never want them banned, and I would never criticise someone for following them.

To each his/her/it's own.

The Cat wrote:

I can never understand why those who don't believe in God are so against other people who do.

It's the other way round. Islamists want me dead, the Christians willing to wait for my eternal turmoil in fire and damnation. Charming!

I've no problem with people believing in exactly what they want, as long as they keep their fairy stories to themselves, but I don't want to be preached to or threatened.

There's no point in an atheist arguing with a believer. The former is arguing from within the borders of reason, and the latter from outside. I'm onto a loser there.

Anthony wrote:
The Cat wrote:

I can never understand why those who don't believe in God are so against other people who do.

It's the other way round. Islamists want me dead, the Christians willing to wait for my eternal turmoil in fire and damnation. Charming!

I've no problem with people believing in exactly what they want, as long as they keep their fairy stories to themselves, but I don't want to be preached to or threatened.

There's no point in an atheist arguing with a believer. The former is arguing from within the borders of reason, and the latter from outside. I'm onto a loser there.

Another thread on Robbie Williams and UFOs leads to a very apt quote

"I don't want to hear any debunking because I want to believe."

In The Know wrote:
zooloo wrote:
It's slightly pleasing that someone like Tony Blair kept his man-in-the-sky delusion quiet, although only because he thinks it would go against him.

What we see with people like Bush who eagerly claim their politics are "inspired" by his man-in-the-sky is troubling.

Interesting that you don't see B-Liar's deceit (in keeping his true beliefs and motivation) secret, to be troubling?

How genuine can his "beliefs" really be - when he keeps them secret for political gain?
In that respect he's the same as the other believers, they believe until it is inconvenient to themselves.

What does please me is that in the UK claiming political policies are in tune with what the man-in-the-sky wants is not acceptable to the majority.

Although I feel the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train