The general discussions got me thinking - if there is no God, why do we behave as we do?

Let me elaborate. Most of our laws are based (originally) around religious principles - in fact people were living their lives by religious principles long before "countries" and "governing bodies" were often established, so, if there is no God why do we act as we do? Why do we live by religious principles if we don;t actually believe in the religion?

Traditionally people have "lived a good life" so they can enjoy the benefits of Heaven later on - but if there is no Heaven?

Why do we not all become bank robbers etc? Let's grab what we can hear and now, maybe?

Over to you ....

I think there are at least two reasons.

1 is that some of us care too much about our fellow humans to act against them.

2 is that nobody has ever disproved the existance of God and so the possibility of his existance remains in the backs or our minds.

I'll never forget my staunch athiest uncle on his death bed suddenly going pale and saying "Oh God I hope I was right."

Maybe we all, deep down, wonder how and why we are here. Could this planet's complex well balanced system really be just the result of an accident? And what caused the accident? Scientific knowledge keeps changing as we make new discoveries which invalidate the old. We have endless questions and very few answers.

Yes - my God is Human Decency.
And that is my morality which I always try to obey (and sometimes fail).

As far as Man in the Sky is concerned, I believe rejection is as foolish as belief.
Who knows what comes next?

So I live my life by what I can see, feel and hear around me.

The claim that moral behaviour follows religion it mistaken. It is more the case that religion follows moral behaviour. Behaviour justified by religion is not necessarily what we would consider good morals.

Why do we believe in a god? (Using "God" is the name of the Christian God something we should avoid as there are many gods all with equal claim).

We could ask why do primitive people believe that things have a "spirit" if they don't? Why do some people believe there is a child molester around every corner when there isn't? Why did people believe in Thor if he isn't there?

Simply believing in something doesn't make it true.

Primitive peoples try to understand the world around them and the concept of personified forces working behind the scenes is probably quite reassuring. Indeed more assuring than the idea it's blind, fairly random and not a lot you can do about it.

If the only thing stopping you going on the rampage is the belief in a god then please keep believing in it.

It's not the threat of a god that makes people behave it is the system of punishments, society and social codes that happen in the here and now.

If there is a god or gods how do we know which one as following the wrong one seems to be a grave error which could get you into an awful lot of trouble later on.

If anyone has any reliable evidence that a god or gods exist it's a shame they don't make it public.

Regarding being unable to disprove the existence of a god or gods - you cannot prove a negative but what we can do is examine the claim for a god or gods and, so far, disprove that.

Frighteningly one thing is becoming clear - there is a God and we're on it.

God is the media. It has full control. Everyone believes it (though many pretend not to).

But I fear God may also be the Devil.

zooloo wrote:
Regarding being unable to disprove the existence of a god or gods - you cannot prove a negative but what we can do is examine the claim for a god or gods and, so far, disprove that.[/quote]

That's not strictly true. If someone believes there is a pencil on my desk, I can easily prove there is not.

Evidence for the existence of God is quite strong.
The universe exists. It could not be made out of nothing, therefore it must have been made out of something. That something must have come from somewhere. We could argue about what God is (capital G suggesting a higher power rather than a particular religion. Many religions use the capital G), wheteher he is a spritual power, or a powerful force of universal nature, but we do know that there is something which is greater than we understand. The simple solution is to deny it's existence because of our inability to explain or understand it.

A friend of mine had his internal ear surgically removed due to serious infection. He went to a Christian healing meeting and by the next day he had both ears working. This is medically documented. Either he was healed by the power of prayer to God, or this was a freak of nature which just happened coincidentally at the same time. It does show that there are things beyond our understanding. It's not something that could be faked, unless his GP, the surgeons and other hospital staff were all in some weird conspiracy, which is highly unlikely.

I do believe there is a greater power. I'm just not sure what that power is. I don't understand it, but I can't deny it.

Believing in something doesn't make it true. Equally, not believing in it doesn't make it untrue.

I personally think that every bird, flower, tree, the sun, the stars, warm summer's day or winter snowflake is evidence that God exists.

The pencil analogy - how can you prove there is no pencil? If you say you can't see it than I can claim it is invisible, for example.

Unless we define what this god or gods aret hen it's of little use. To say there must be a "something" is so nebulous we may as well disregard it as the world functions just as well without considering it. It is an interesting abstraction but of no real value or use. It most certainly should not be used as the sole justification for behaviour or action.

It is true there are many things we don't understand, but as we don't understand something what reason is there to personify it? All we have is "We don't know".

The assumption that something must have preceded this leads to nowhere as equally something must have preceded the that, and something preceded that, etc. Where direct evidence stops "We don't know" begins.

The "God" interceding (Cures for instance) seems very arbitrary - what has this "God" got against amputees why are they not "cured"?

What test would you suggest to verify, or otherwise, the existence of a "God"? Also what would prove the hypothesis wrong?

Do you also believe in the teachings of the Bible, which insist that Man was made in God's own image, about 5 thousand years ago, thus dismissing the brilliant work of a certain Charles Darwin....?

I saw an excellent documentary recently, titled The Blind Watchmaker... It's a very well balanced piece, which in the end comes down in support of Darwinian evolution, as opposed to Creationism or 'intelligent design'.

No doubt, there are still very big questions as to where all the matter in the universe came from in the first place. Who or What caused the Big Bang etc etc...? These are questions that our scientists are gradually coming to terms with, and no doubt we WILL have the answer soon (in relative terms, of course).

Personally, I don't believe in God. Well, at least not in the sense that there is some omnipotent being watching over all of us.

I'm with JK, I believe only in what I can see with my own eyes.

It's an interesting discussion.

If there is a God then he must be above and beyond us, otherwise he'd be no greater than us and could not therefore be God. Any evidence for or against would have to be limited to the confines of man's understanding and so it would be impossible to prove or disprove something which is beyond our understanding.

This is why religions involve faith, because it's about believeing in something for which there can be no proof.

Only one thing can be certain. If God exists then he does so whether we believe in him or not. There'll be nothing we can do about it.

and does he regard us as we regard ants? Or grains of sand?

Or more important?

Or just another ingredient in creation?

Some very interesting answers (and welcome too, to the newcomers that this thread has attracted) - but no one really is getting to the base of what I was asking.

I believe I am a relatively "good" person ... why is that? If there is no "God" and no afterlife, then why should I not just go out and rob banks and make my short time on this planet very comfortable indeed ?!

Pete - You say scientists are making new discoveries, but remember that these "latest" discoveries are also sometimes overturned again later on when further "discoveries" are made?

Zooloo says that religion follows moral behaviour (whereas I implied the other way round). I believe I am right. Thinking such as "Thou shall not kill" and "Thou shall not covet their neighbours ox (or wife !)" existed as religious doctrine long before they were enshrined in any man-made laws.

In The Know wrote:

I believe I am a relatively "good" person ... why is that? If there is no "God" and no afterlife, then why should I not just go out and rob banks and make my short time on this planet very comfortable indeed ?!
Because you have your own moral code? The way your parents brought you up? Your genetic make up? Spending your short amount of time on earth in prison would be a bit of a waste? I respect life all the more because I don't believe in an afterlife. I would feel far less guilty robbing or even killing someone if I thought they would be off to paradise for eternity anyway. And I could always choose one of the religions where I'll be OK as long as I repent.

Religion is a very convenient tool on many levels. It does spell out a code of morality. It no doubt helped keep a bit of law and order in biblical times, putting the fear of God into the potentially criminal. Look at the dietary laws in Judaism and Islam. Quite sensible not to eat pork and shellfish in the Middle East without refrigeration. But its main purpose has always been to control, and many people like to be controlled. Why think for yourself, when you have a book and a religious leader to do it all for you?

Was it D'Israeli who said "Where knowledge ends, religion begins"? Science does not have all the answers. Before we could explain the sun and moon, we used to worship them. Because we cannot explain the origins of the universe, some regard this as evidence that God must or may exist. This is not evidence. It is ignorance.

And if God exists, maybe He could reveal himself to me and explain how I can set my Firefox homepage back into English, after I turned it into Hebrew in a moderately drunken and bored state about six weeks ago.

In The Know wrote:
Some very interesting answers (and welcome too, to the newcomers that this thread has attracted) - but no one really is getting to the base of what I was asking.

I believe I am a relatively "good" person ... why is that? If there is no "God" and no afterlife, then why should I not just go out and rob banks and make my short time on this planet very comfortable indeed ?!

Pete - You say scientists are making new discoveries, but remember that these "latest" discoveries are also sometimes overturned again later on when further "discoveries" are made?

Zooloo says that religion follows moral behaviour (whereas I implied the other way round). I believe I am right. Thinking such as "Thou shall not kill" and "Thou shall not covet their neighbours ox (or wife !)" existed as religious doctrine long before they were enshrined in any man-made laws.
Your incentive not to go out and rob banks is you would be hunted down and imprisoned.

Do you want to rob banks? If you do and the only thing stopping you is the fear of divine retribution I urge you to keep believing in divine retribution for your own sake and others.

Did the Romans base their laws on what Zeus wanted? I think not. Buddha managed to produce a code of conduct without the sanction of a god.

Is their any evidence the Jews were killing and stealing, etc, any more than any other society before Moses produced the Commandments?

If there is a god there seem to be several contenders all claiming exclusivity - how can one determine which is the right god?

If I may presume you have a particular god as your own, how did you eliminate all the others as being the wrong ones?

@Cat

You gave your god a sex (He), how do you know this if there is no proof of a god. How can you know its characteristics are with no evidence whatsoever of what it is (Hence faith)?

Anthony wrote:
And if God exists, maybe He could reveal himself to me and explain how I can set my Firefox homepage back into English, after I turned it into Hebrew in a moderately drunken and bored state about six weeks ago.
I did look upon Firefox and did see it were good.

Thou goest unto Tools > Options > Main and setteth thoust Homepage there.

Yea thoust sayeth I have done this unto Firefox yet my burden is not lifteth.

Then I sayeth do as above but thee not goeth unto Main but goeth unto Advanced and doth changeth thoust preferred language for displayeth pages.

Praise Be Me.

Good news Zooloo - you share the same IP number as God!

At last, proof there IS a God!

JK2006 wrote:
Good news Zooloo - you share the same IP number as God!

At last, proof there IS a God!

That explains alot !!!!

Anthony wrote:
In The Know wrote:

I believe I am a relatively "good" person ... why is that? If there is no "God" and no afterlife, then why should I not just go out and rob banks and make my short time on this planet very comfortable indeed ?!
Because you have your own moral code? The way your parents brought you up? Your genetic make up? Spending your short amount of time on earth in prison would be a bit of a waste? I respect life all the more because I don't believe in an afterlife. I would feel far less guilty robbing or even killing someone if I thought they would be off to paradise for eternity anyway. And I could always choose one of the religions where I'll be OK as long as I repent.

Religion is a very convenient tool on many levels. It does spell out a code of morality. It no doubt helped keep a bit of law and order in biblical times, putting the fear of God into the potentially criminal. Look at the dietary laws in Judaism and Islam. Quite sensible not to eat pork and shellfish in the Middle East without refrigeration. But its main purpose has always been to control, and many people like to be controlled. Why think for yourself, when you have a book and a religious leader to do it all for you?

Was it D'Israeli who said "Where knowledge ends, religion begins"? Science does not have all the answers. Before we could explain the sun and moon, we used to worship them. Because we cannot explain the origins of the universe, some regard this as evidence that God must or may exist. This is not evidence. It is ignorance.

Best answer yet, Anthony. But if my insticts are based on parental guidance - could it not be because THEY were influenced by religion and simply passed their fears etc onto me?

I still feel that most people are inherently "good" - and feel there is something which makes them that way.

We all fear what we have not seen , although some of us have seen what we feared.

Good for you ITK; despite your cynicism you share my essential optimism.
Yes, I too feel humans are inherently decent. The problem is - that individual decency is watered down when "one" becomes society.