Shouldn't we ALL apologise for abuse? And murder? On behalf of the human race?

This could go on and on forever. Well, some of the abusers may have been priests. So what? We don't expect representatives of the human race to go around apologising every few minutes. And what about other crimes by priests? Fraud, rape - yes, even murder? Should he be apologising for that?

Let alone peddling crap philosophies in order to excuse human frailty.

Well I think that pressure meant that he had to say something on the subject.
I listened to the speech on the radio this morning, it sounded a little bit "read" as opposed to felt.
I`m sure he is a lovely man but, I have no religous beliefs and I see most of life as business and survival.

Sounded weak to me, sorry all true believers.

Ah Mart you've correctly answered the question - THE MEDIA.

Isn't that why we do everything these days?

I'm more concerned with Catholicism (along with the other "brands" of Christianity and Islam) being the most successful con trick in history played on poor gullible souls.

When they apologize for that and disappear back into the parallel universe of the imaginary from whence they came, I'll be happy.

Incidentally, have they got around to apologizing for deliberately turning a blind eye to the Holocaust yet? Suppose not since the media is only interested in paedophilia these days.

I just hope the AUSTRALIAN prime minister now comes on TV and apologises for their part in the MILLION DEAD ( Including Children ) that they supported in the IRAQ war.

The POPE should actually not be doing this - there are more child abusers in Local Authorities and in The Police than the very few Catholic Priests. So why should he apologise for a minority when other organisations with a REAL BIG PROBLEM ignore it.

Child abuse is not a religious issue - it is an issue for humanity to consider. Our media glorifies sex then wonders why young teens get pregnant and start experimenting at an ever earlier age. Surely THE MEDIA should apologise.

I might add that all belief systems are open to the accusation of being a con trick - especially when based on faith. I think allowing people to have faith is part of a free society. In addition I do not see how anyone can have any problem with the central message of Jesus - which is to LOVE everyone ( whether your neighbour or enemy ). If that happened surely the World would be a fairer and better place......?

You see the trouble with religion is - once you base your life on belief, whether it is a total fallacy or not (something we'll never know until we die - if then), everything else is founded on that shifting sand.

So slowly but surely everything gently gets more and more lunatic and decisions are made which seem totally logical and acceptable - until you draw the line back to the basic premise, in which case they are barmy.

Like sex. Logic says there is nothing wrong with it as long as both (or all) parties want it and are informed enough and mature enough to be able to decide they want it.

Just like eating a meal or sharing a movie.

But somewhere in both Christianity and Islam, sense got lost and now society seems to accept that sex criminals are as bad as violent criminals and far worse than forgers, drug pushers, robbers and so on.

Why?

The bloody Pope should apologise for bullying (there's been a lot of that), conning people out of money (done lots of that), anti-gay bigotry (going on as we speak)... my God he could spend his entire life apologising!

Boring people to death with dull sermons is far more serious than giving the odd consensual wank.

At least the second is stimulating.

And I'm with you BR - there's a lot of good in both Christianity and Islam which has nothing to do with a god figure - decency and love should be human nature.

Incidentally, the Bible is a terrific book - especially the Old Testament.

I'm an atheist, but willing to accept I may be wrong. We won't know until we die as you say, JK, whether some form of deity exists, but don't confuse belief with religion. For example it is very easy to prove that Islam is a lie. The Qur'an is the last word of Allah as dictated by the Angel Gabriel to Mohammed. Not a word of it can be questioned as Allah is all knowing and perfect. Yet it (i.e. Allah) states that sperm is produced in the spine, Christians worshipped Mary as part of the Holy Trinity and that the Sun and Moon are lamps which will go to heaven on Judgement Day. It is full of similar scientific absurdities, and the usual contradictions which apply to all holy scriptures, but in fact you only have to find one minor error to knock that flimsy Islamic house of cards down. Either Allah was wrong or the Qur'an is not his words.

Christianity is a harder nut to crack, but only because it keeps moving the goalposts. The world clearly was not made in 6 days, and Adam and Eve were not created as stated, so now we must believe that those parts are suddenly figurative, but all the rest of it is true. Rubbish.

BR, I wasn't inferring that religion should be banned. Of course people must have freedom of faith. How much freedom do Muslims in Saudi or Iran have though? Of course Jesus was a great man, if he existed. His teachings are beyond reproach, but how many have killed in his name? Jesus isn't to blame for that, but Christianity is.

What I want is for people to wake up and freely choose to reject these evil death cults. Only then can humanity reach its true potential.

I'm sorry to stray from the original topic, but I truly believe this is the most important issue on earth, and if I can persuade one person to reject organized religion, it will be the best thing I ever do.

I remember the words of Barry McGuire, when he talked about this guy who came up to him and said ..

"You Christians, man, you've all been brainwashed!"

Barry McGuire replied. "Hey brother, that's true. But the difference between us and you is that we've all chosen who we want to wash our brains."

Not sure where that claim comes from that Christians see Mary as part of the Holy Trinity. I've never yet met a Christian who believes that, and it's not written anywhere in scriptures.

[b]Al wrote
Not sure where that claim comes from that Christians see Mary as part of the Holy Trinity. I've never yet met a Christian who believes that, and it's not written anywhere in scriptures.[/quote]
It never was believed, Al. That was my point.

It is a quotation from the Qur'an, proving that the Islamic holy book came directly from the illiterate and uneducated savage Mohammed, and not from the all knowing Allah, as the Muslims claim. Unless the perfect deity forgot his New Testament.

Unfortunately, other religions haven't made quite it so easy for me to ridicule them.

Pope Bashing is popular but although I don't agree with things he says I believe the man's heart is in the right place.

He's apologised (more then once) so what the hell do people want ?. It wasn't him who abused.

One couple flew from the UK to Australia to try and confront the Pope about their 2 daughters who had been abused by a priest. They had been offered the standard compensation ( 50 thousand pounds twice) but preferred to go to court and got 250 grand but then blamed the church for it taking so long-any court case for compo for an injury or such takes years !.

But-the church offers unlimited funding for abuse victims to have counselling-as long as it takes and whatever it costs. Over 90% don't take counselling but accept the cash.

I think they'd like the Pope crucified as well.

how can the POPE be responsible for everyone on his "Payroll"

If that sort of rule was applied to every company or business then we would daily see a line of MDs writing to the press to excuse the "behaviour" of one of their "staff"

In the same way though Christians should be salt and I am sure Islam and other religions preach a positive approach to life - it is clear that throughout history there have been people who have twisted and used these religions to cause suffering and hurt. Does that make these religions/faiths wrong ? I dont think so.

I believe in free speech and the free right of all of us to choose whether to believe in a faith or have no faith. It is a matter of free will - coercion is wrong I agree with that Anthony.

I have met many people from differing religions and many with no religion - who are wonderful human beings and show love to others.

I think the Pope should not apologise for anything. I think he should start to tell everyone ( including his staff) that their actions should be in love and anyone who breaks the law will have to answer individually for their actions and anyone who breaks God's laws likewise.

We are great in 2008 in giving up individual responsibility and shifting the blame onto organisations or government. They may be responsible for some things but not our own actions.

I agree with JK the Old Testament is a great piece of writing - though I do think the message of JC is one by which if we all lived in love for each other we would have a better chance of building a fantastic peaceful world.

The Old Testament is amazing reading..such stories !. But it's pretty gruesome as well and lots of hell fire and brimstone and promises of punishment and all that but the story of Jesus Christ is quite amazing.

If he didn't exist then some unbelievably clever writer was the most inventive yet with an original tale.

I can't fault anything Jesus is claimed to have said-it's all love and peace and more importantly for me-he was the first Socialist !!

Yes I often feel if the spirit and words of Jesus were pre-eminent and not the bigoted interpretations I might even become a Christian.

Especially if you assume that his use of the word God applies as a general principle and not a specific belief (i.e. "God" is whatever force created humanity - not a person with a white beard - though a terrific lookalike appears in Vile Pervert: The Musical).

The World is a stunningly beautiful place and the Universe is immense. There does seem to be design involved.

I agree that organised faiths seem to do things that are totally opposite to what they should.

You make the point well JK about the anglicans who are showing a lack of love - what is really outstanding about Jesus is that when he saw others about to stone a prostitute it was this person that he befriended. The Church seems to be in a bubble of back slapping and judgementalism about anyone who is not a "member". The Jesus portrayed in the NT would be showing love to all -not trying to exclude others.

I might add that JC made it quite clear that no one has to join a religion to believe in what he said....