www.unison.org.uk/news/news_view.asp?did=4989

WESTMIINTSTER COUNCIL get rid of fingerprint machines

and

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/p...d-cards-1023098.html

the first recipients of the card will STRIKE rather than accept these cards.

I believe EVERY member of the public will refuse these cards. Together we will make this BROWN and SMITH waster of money scheme unworkable.

When the New Labour are voted out in 2010 the scheme will be scrapped by the Tories as well and the money put into schools and hospitals.

Yes, I would much prefer not to have ID cards for all the usual civil liberty and privacy reasons; but then, I have nothing to hide (even my 2008 tax return has been submitted, accurately).

Could the same be said of the millions of UK residents who are totally beneath the radar ? I doubt it - and also that anyone knows (a) how many of these people exist and (b) what their UK agendas are. Just working illegally, or something more sinister.

Should a UK goverment not be allowed to even know who lives here - and maybe even have a chat with those who have made themselves virtually untraceable, for whatever reason ? Yes, they should - notwithstanding the monitoring errors of the past.

Apart from helping to avoid terrorist attacks, ID cards would reduce tax dodging, bogus NHS claimants, exploitation of women etc. etc.

Who spoke about 'the lesser of two wevels' ?

I believe in the principle of innocent until proven guilty.

I also believe that a society built on mistrust will surely collapse.

ID cards thrwaten our way of life, and our freedoms, much more than any number of terrorists. I would rather die with my freedom intect than live a life under constant scrutiny and suspicion.

I will not carry an ID card.

Not only is it a mistrust - I have no problem with any ID - I have a passport - I have a driving license.

Therefore WHY DO I NEED A CHIPPED CARD ?

What benefit will THIS ID bring ?

The answer is none.

The reason for the card HAS TO BE more sinister than is being let on. It is a method of control for the masses because otherwise why spend so much government money (

I have "nothing to hide" and at the same time..I have heaps to hide, especially from nosey policeman and government officals of all time.

I simply do not want people in authority to have the ability to access all information on me..because information is power.

I would be the first to refuse show my ID card and the first to be carted off but I predict the jails couldnt hold us all.

I believe almost every country requires a certain "black market" in order to survive and indeed, the majority of governments, whether in the East or West believe and accept this.

With the exception of totalitarian Facists governments..but even they are powerless to prevent 'black markets'.

The way to prevent tax avoiders is to better arrange taxation. A sales tax basically means everyone pays tax in the end..even those who work without paying income tax.

I cannot see how an ID card ( and any sort of 'card' can be re-produced bypassed in this day and age- billions of pounds are lost world-wide on fake credit cards but the profits on card issuers are still high enough to absorb the lossses) would have avoided the IRA bombing campaigns in the UK..stilL the biggest terrorist attacks on the country.

I really don't see the problem.... I have lived in countries where they have ID cards, and none of my friends have been snooped on, followed around or stopped and searched.

I really think it's a lot of fuss about nothing.

I don't think that id cards will make the slightest difference to terrorism. How would id cards have helped stop the 7/7 bombings, they wouldn't is the answer.
The people committing these crimes are in the country legally anyway. If the countries borders weren't like revolving doors then maybe extremist muslims wouldn't enter the country.

We already have lots of id anyway (passports, driving licence, N.I numbers etc. why pay for more). A better way to stop terrorism would be to stop this stupid war on Iraq.

"other countries have ID Cards"

Oh no they dont have

"Biometric ID Cards with a RFD CHIP"

We had ID cards in the war - I have no problem with ID such as a Driving License or Passport. It is when it is CHIPPED and linked to BIOMETRICS that it starts to become a real worry.

Good points made I might add - and I agree with you all. The majority of people dont want these cards based on expense and necessity. The Big Brother argument is also another reason.

A card will not stop a terrorist or an illegal immigrant. Remember these cards dont need to be carried.

The UK electorate voted for Labour - based on their manefesto which included ID cards; is this not THE relevant factor, in this free society ?

If I moved to a country which already had ID cards I would carry one because that is a part of their established system.

I have never been required to carry ID in my country. I do not drive and do not own a passport. Carrying ID is not a part of our established system and I oppose the attempts to diminish our freedoms of movement and lifestyle.

I've no objection to ID cards on a voluntary basis for those who want them, but to have them forced upon me, and to have all my biometric data stored and available to snoopers, is unacceptable.

Al - the 'established system'....

Should the electorate not, in your view, be allowed to change this ?

In a democracy, people vote for a Party which promotes policies - see Tim's highly relevant point.

The voice of the masses outweighs those of individuals; if you don't agree with a policy - either form or join a Party to have your view heard.

The majority of English voters rejected Labour. The Scottish Parliament is set to reject proposals for ID cards.

I have spoken to many Labour voters. Several did not read the manifesto and were not aware that ID cards were a part of it. Others were under the impression that ID cards would be voluntary. The majority of them are not in favour of compulsary ID cards. They voted Labour for other reasons.

I'm sure most Germans who elected the National Socialist party in the 1930s did not support that party's policy on Jews, or did not believe things would be taken so far.

If I vote in a Conservative government and they have a policy which I believe is wrong, I will not just accept that policy because it's from the party I voted for. I will continue to oppose that policy. This is a right of the electorate in a free society.

Say hello to Tim next time you look in the mirror.

Policies should change Martha - Gordon Brown believed in prudence in the last election and in fact if we take your argument literally we voted for BLAIR and so Brown should have called that Autumn election instead of bottling it....

The ID pledge was made by Blair's Government. Brown's government needs a mandate - even they understand this and so are not introducing the card until after the next election.

My gripe is the

this is true..many countries and at different times in hystory ID cards have been required. And whether they would actually be used (or be of use) is open to debate.

For instance-in Vietnam, Thailand which I visit regularly and have many friends living there..all tourists and foreign residents are required to carry their passports at all times. No-one ever does because of the risk of theft or loss. In the very rare case you are stopped by a policeman, if he asked to see it and you didn't have it on you, a one pound donation to the policeman's "charity" fund would take care of the problem.

However I simply don't trust modern politicians. I oppose what the vast majority of them do on principal..on the principal they have none.

This will be a billion pound industry that hands over taxpayer's money to private corporations and ineveitably, retiring government minsiters will end up on the board of those companies.

Addditonally "problems" will be created that means millons of pounds must be paid each year to maintain that sytem..and like everthing today..it won't work anyway.

So if you don't care about ID cards or do care..you all lose out in the end.

Al's opinion of Labour - and, indeed, German - voters is low; they simply didn't know what they were voting for.

His right to oppose policies is accetpted; his threat 'I will not carry an ID card' is not, in a democracy - should that same democracy deem it expedient.

I'm just back from NYC and elsewhere; Al does not have a passport [bit like not reading]. So, he probably won't know that NYC has 29,000 police - many highly visable on the streets.

This is another way to fight the main threat, terrorism - maybe even better than ID cards ?!

I agree with you. Proper neighbourhood policing with REAL police based in local stations rather than industrial estates - walking their beats rather than whizzing around in cars would be a great way to deter crime and possibly would mean terrorists would find it more difficult.

Sadly cuts to the Police are likely in the next 10 years due to the "Bail out" of the banks and the Overtime pay structure for the Police which rewards them with up to

I agree with your final sentence Veritas. We will all be screwed by the ID card scam. I'm pleased that the Conservatives and Lib Dems have both opposed this scheme and will likely scrap it if they are elected.

Unfortunately it's not just ID cards. On top of this we'll have all of our emails, texts and phone calls recorded, increased monitoring of our every move by CCTV, stop and question in addition to stop and search, satellite tracking of our vehicles in order to record our journey details, a compulsary national fingerprint and DNA database, and we are all assumed guilty until we can prove via a CRB check that we are not. Now that the government has it's fingers in the banks they can probably keep track of our finances too.

Criminals, including terrorists, operate outside of the law, so no changes in the law will effect them. Only those with nothing to hide have something to fear.

Hubby went to New York in Spring and was detained at the airport for ten hours while they decided whether he had a criminal record or not. Eventually they said they would let him in, but he boarded the next flight home instead. He won't be hurrying back to the USA.

We live in such a sad world.

your story about the USA is exactly why I feel I cant go over there - I really dont need the problem of a long flight plus OTT terror checks which your story is a typical example.

The USA is losing billions in tourist revenue and business revenue because these policies have made it the Soviet Union. I can only see things getting worse as more biometrics are introduced.

The terrorists have already won the battle. Every ID card or fingerprint or police check is a VICTORY to AL QUAEDA and to BIN LADEN. They have "terrorised" us into giving up our freedoms so that our society is now LESS FREE than Islamic society where you dont need to carry cards or prove who you are or have a CRB check to work. The West has given in to AL QUAEDA and they never need attack again because their work is complete if we continue to introduce such restrictions on liberty.