petitions.number10.gov.uk/Photorestrict/

ok, so Downing Street petitions may not have any real clout but I still think it's worth signing- I have.

I have often taken all the police state talk with a pinch of salt but I am growing increasingly concerned.

I have just returned from Hungary (where I lived for many years) and instantly felt suffocated by a lack of freedom.

If police can take photos andfilmof me, why can I not do the same to them?

The Government has not listened to anyone. This is the problem. The petition site is a sop.

The fact that you felt oppressed entering the UK after being away is a sign that all is not well. The rest of us have had it on a drip drip drip. We are almost used to it now - and have to remind ourselves of how life used to be before the cameras were on every street and unmarked Police cars roared around - bizarrely with sirens going ( Why be unmarked then turn the sirens on - sort of defeats the object )

We are in a dangerous Police State where the Police believe they have the upper hand. Where they can kill at will without being charged and where they feel they have the right to be above the law.

There are decent people in the Police forces but they are the minority. We need to roll back this Big Brother state and examine what we have created.

We all want community police on the beat. We dont need CCTV. It would be better to sack CCTV operators and replace them by police. I have a feeling most cameras are never watched in any case - it would take a person per camera for it to be effective ( Millions employed watching camera shots 24.7 seems a complete waste of resources )

A change of Government is the first step then the Tories need to dismantle this Police State. If they dont then revolution may be the only way.

david wrote:


I have just returned from Hungary (where I lived for many years) and instantly felt suffocated by a lack of freedom.

If police can take photos andfilmof me, why can I not do the same to them?

This would be the same Hungary where the police fire rubber bullets at protestors ?

The same Hungary where the police and public regularly brutalise the Roma community ?

The same Hungary where police stand by and watch violent attacks against gay people at a pride event ?

and try this for corruption.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/...-can-buy-719280.html

If you feel so oppressed here by the policing, why not just go back to Hungary where life is clearly so fantastic for you ?

I think you have ms-read david's sentiments. He's basically agreeing with you and calling for the UK not to go down the same road.(as far as I can read)

This non-photographing of police law is a real worry. Cast your minds back and re-call how many of us claimed that restrictive new so-called "terrorism" laws would lead to aspects of fascism and the curtailing of freedoms. We were right and they wrong (as George Galloway would put it).

What has emerged on film from private citizens over the G20 demos and the police fibs told is a warning that unexposed authorities will lie and pervert freedoms if unchallenged.

I personaly believe that the more laws that attempt to modify behaviour it will backfire. With technology accelerating it's only a matter of time before people begin covertly filming everything. You only need a pin-hole camera these days.

Personally-I covertly record any conversation I have with a public servant. This could be considered illegal..although I carefully drop it in the conversation in a laughing way and it's amazing how many aknowledge it without realising. It can't be used in court..but it can be used by investigating bodies that uncover corruption. Paronoid ?..yes but with good reason and I've claimed a couple of scalps.

We already know the quicker authorities try to prevent credit card frauds etc..the quicker criminal gangs get a step ahead of them. And why wouldn't they ?..if the police think that sharper minds work for them alone they are in dreamland.

Why they are intent on treating all citizens as criminals though is a mystery. Government has passed the line where they serve the electorate to one where they are the masters.

It's what you expect of a government elected by one-quarter of the people.

If in doubt-cast your minds back further to the first G20 demos and the (is he insane ?) Tony Blair who publicly castegated protestors (before they even happened) in speech after speech- as fools clamouring to march for no good reason and grasp at straws. The fast forward to the great financial meltdown trhoughout the world..courtesy of Tony Blair/George Bush and exactly as demonstrators predicted.

We are meant to be the proles now and take orders from our masters. Resist !

Mike you are reading too much into my post. I was referring to the surveillance culture here, which I have not experienced anywhere else I have lived.

you wrote "If you feel so oppressed here by the policing, why not just go back to Hungary where life is clearly so fantastic for you ?"

well thank you for your kind words lol I have actually been thinking of making the move. I do not necessarily feel "oppressed" here, I just really dislike the surveillance culture here, and the erosion of civil liberties. That has nothing to do with my possible relocation back to Budapest. There is plenty I like about the UK and also plenty I like about Hungary, France, Finland and other places I have spent a lot of time in. However, I do not go on character assassination of a whole country. Every country has its good points and things which need improving.

Just so you know:

I am fully aware of the Roma situation not only in Hungary but in much of Europe. There is quite a focus on this issue in Hungary at the moment and it gets plenty of sympathetic tv coverage. I was also in a relationship with a Roma guy for a year or so, so I am quite aware of the plight of the Roma community.

Yes there has been some anti-gay violence, which as a gay man I deplore. However, I spent 8 years in Hungary and was openly gay. I had a long-term relationship with a Hungarian guy and we were openly a couple at work and with his family and our friends. I can honestly say that in all those years I never experienced any homophobia. I have plenty of friends in Hungary who are openly gay and they are fine too.

I am aware of corruption in politics, which is a legacy fcrom the communist era. I worked with quite a number of politicians/senior civil servants and have quite a few stories I could tell. I could also tell a few stories about the corruption of the World Bank in its handling of Hungary's transition to a democracy- some example they were setting (not). Interestingly a new political party has been created which is creating quite a lot of interest. it's called LMP ("Legyen Más A Politika" or "Let Politics Be Different") I shall be following its progress with interest.

So I am totally aware of the issues in Hungary. But I am also aware of the good things about the country and people. I don't let the problems blot out the good things. i don't like the surveillance culture here, but I do love other things about this country. You seem to have taken what I said as an atack on the UK, which it was not at all.

I feel at home in Hungary. It's a great place (in spite of everything).

tara for now.

so perhaps you can explain this lack of freedom you felt suffocated by ?

I don't feel that way nor does anybody I know.

surveillance culture ? where exactly is this ? If it's so bloody terrible here why do hundreds of thousands of people head for this country, walking through the tunnel,stowing away in lorries etc . They don't want to stay in France that's for sure !

A few paranoid individuals on a website forum are not really representative of a nation but at least in this country then can have their say.

Where is the surveillance culture?

The UK has more CCTV than any other country. The government have introduced laws to monitor our emails, texts and phone calls. From next year we will have to give details of our itinerary if we leave the mainland. Cars are being fitted with tracking devices so that our journeys can be logged. Police are being given the power to remotely access our computers and make a search through our hard drive without having to inform us either before or after. There is a also a proposal that they should be able to enter our homes and take or copy anything they want to, without warrant or the need to inform us.

Add to those the planned compulsary DNA and fingerprint databases, plus ID cards.

None of these are scaremongering stories of weird websites. It's old news, covered in passing by the mainstream media. There have been debates and votes in Parliament, TV discussions (Newsnight, Question Time, This Week, CH4 News), etc. etc.

I remember a man in East Germany who said he never had any problems with the old regime. Nobody ever stopped him from living his life. That didn't mean that others were suffering or that the regime was a good one.

Why do people come to Britain? According to some of those interviewed they think it's a land of milk and honey with automatic free healthcare, social benefits and ample housing. Many Polish immigrants have returned to Poland having realised Britain is not the paradise they had imagined. For some others, going back would mean death of persecution, so they see Britain as a slightly lesser evil.

I went to the public records office a few weeks ago. I have been going there for years, but this time I was told I now need three forms of identification and to fill in a form with my personal details. When I asked why, I was told that my information will be shared throughout other government and local authority departments, along with the details of which records I am viewing. These are public records which the public are entitled to see. All I should need to prove is that I am a member of the public. My very existance is sufficient to prove that.

mikemacca wrote:
so perhaps you can explain this lack of freedom you felt suffocated by ?



Hi Mike

I have to say I'm a pretty new "convert" to all this.

I ridiculed David Davies in his bid to highlight the erosion of civil liberties, but am slowly being won round.

a few things which disturb me:

1. That almost everything I do outside of my own home can be filmed and recorded. Sorry but no one has the right to do that.

2. People who are arreested and not charged with anything have their DNA stored forever. Why?

3. It is forbidden to take photos of police officers.... funny thing to bring in, unless you are trying to stop the likes of Ian Tomlinson being filmed prior to his death.

4. Speed cameras... now I was all for these, as I am all for severe penalties for speeding. However, a friend of mine has been heavily involved in the design of the last 2 generations of speedcams. He is far from being a conspiracy theorist, but did tell me the following:

In the briefing they received when designing the cams, they were clearly told that the main purpose of the cams was not to catch speeding drivers but to track the movements of cars around the uk by following their numberplates. This was due to potential "terrorism threats".

I am all for the prevention of terrorism, but this is being used as a guise for introducing all kinds of legislation.

How many people have been killed in terrorist attacks in the UK in the past 10 years? Very few (although a former colleague of mine was very sadly killed in the 7/7 bombings).

The measures that are being taken are way byond all preportion given the level of the threat.

I don't subscribe to BR's school of thought but I am becoming quite concerned.