www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/may/22/b...il-mother-stepfather

Now I'm no expert,and this was a vile crime.But seems to me there's every chance these sentences will be lowered by either the appeal court,or Europe.
This was not well handled,especially asking a 4 yo to remember under oath things from when she was 2 yo.
Could and should never have got this far if the council had spent less time worshiping political correctness,and doing its job of protecting innocent young lives.

The incompetence of Social Services is one thing but any normal person would never dream of carrying out the horrific abuse of an innocent child. The mother is as bad if not worse than the scumbag of a boyfriend who abused this child as she stood by and did nothing. Not only did he severely abuse this child resulting in his death he also raped a TWO year old girl.
In my opinion people like this should be hung drawn and quartered as they have forfeited their human rights by committing such horrific appalling crimes. What about the victims human rights?
I have heard they have both been jailed indefinately, that is another load of bollocks because in the next breath the boyfriend has been told he must serve a minimum of 10 years and the mother a minimum of 5 years.
This is where British justice really stinks, in cases like this LIFE SHOULD MEAN LIFE.

Ah but Carl were you there to witness the crime?

If not, you are quite entitled to believe the media coverage and the prosecution case but I suggest both might not be entirely reliable.

Or then again, they might be.

In which case serious incarceration is needed as is protection for society.

But if the prosecution was exaggerating...

stay calm Carl-although I don't know the complete details of the Baby P case I worry whenever I hear the words "they have forfeited their human rights"

There is no such thing ever-and it's a claim made repeatedly when people hear of terrible cases.

It adds to the hysteria and that culminates in what we have today. A justice system where a person could be beaten to a pulp and the offendor jailed and eventually released without monitoring and a case where someone is jailed for a supposed sex crime that may have involved willing partners of differing but illegal ages yet they will be crucified by the media and such.

I admit though that any matter where a child is beaten and even dies horrifies me.

I once did a survey amongst my own family-neither I or my 3 siblings were ever physically punished by our parents despite them being quite capable of enforcing discipline.

It surprised me to find neither of my parents had even been physically punished by their parents and so on backwards as far as I could go and none of my brothers have ever physically harmed their chilfren but they can be strict parents.

It was a small lesson in how aberrant and physically abusive behaviour is learnt and passed on down through families and visa versa.

The awful Baby P case is just a symptom of a failure in the government and social services..we have growing generations of young people who are marginalised and excluded either through poverty or aimlessness from the rest of society that constantly tells them can do better-when it's basically impossible.

I'm wary of any media reports and authorities are experts at shifting blame for their own failures and that includes politicians who concentrate on building themselves duck's ponds at our expense.

The government no longer "governs", they don't lead, they preach "morality" and have none themselves. And sadly, there will be more Baby Ps when they easily particpate in the blowing up of Iraqis and neglect their own children at risk.

(lecture ends here !)

It's true Carl what the others have said below.We really don't know the full facts,however we do know what social services should have done,ie respect the rights of that poor child,and taken him to safety.
I've studied some social sciences,alongside trainee social workers.They certainly spent far too long playing political correctness games,and hence less time for real care,hence why so many mess ups.

The real fact is we have no idea who did what to Baby P,and the word of a 4 yo who contradicted herself doesn't bode well if it was the best evidence the court could find to confirm rape.
These sentences will no doubt be pulled up on appeal.

Remember they said the Birmingham 6 should forfeit their human rights,those people were left with egg on their faces when the convictions were overturned.
You don't fix the suffering of a young child with dodgy legal work,you do things properly.That's why we claim the moral high ground,and hence the authority to punish those who fall below our standards.

And of course there was the obligatory angry mob outside the court caring about children they never knew while their own offspring are probably out wreaking havoc in their own neighbourhoods.

Why do all the shrieking harpies outside have dreadful teeth?

No NHS Dentists? Either that or the paper that recruited them to stand there held auditions first. Looks like the Lynch Mob season is here again.

Ok, I am well aware the media does not always get things right, however I have followed this particular case from the very start from the TV coverage and in the newspapers and it really is difficult to escape the facts. I have watched countless interviews from not only Police Officers but doctors who assessed the injuries on this child's body after his death. The injuries were all catalogued and consistent with severe beatings and deliberate physical abuse.
The mother of the child has even admitted smothering baby lotion over the child's body to mask some of his injuries prior to social services arriving.
In my opinion I could'nt give a toss if the media have exaggerated things, (which I believe they have'nt in this particular case) this woman and the sadistic boyfriend deserve everything they get for the things they have admitted doing to this child.

Carl I think is right.

The very sad fact about today's Britain is that there is too much child neglect. Alot of cruelty and in many sink estates abuse.

There seems to be many people who dont respect the human rights of children. The Politically Correct brigade actually make it worse because they seem to focus on revenge and chasing imaginary targets.

Baby P is the tip of the iceberg.

The media blames everyone else. The Catholic Church espcially is getting the finger pointed at it. But the state has been far worse in its care of children but we dont see the state being "ridiculed" in the same way.

I think we all need to take responsibility for the better treatment of the vulnerable in our society. Not for Politically Correct reasons - and legislation is just a sop - we need to start to show human care and love towards others. Until that happens abuse will be epidemic.

The media has distorted the situation and by doing so actually adds to the problem. Poor families need support and education. The media makes Child Abuse ACCEPTABLE by giving it so much coverage - they are in fact the agents of the state in doing this. By doing this they make it look as if EVERYONE is a paedophile - and picking on the most caring professions ( Priests and Teachers ) adds to that idea.

You never see the ordinary abuse turning up in the newspapers ( Bad story as JK would say ) because the media sensationalises it. The story has been turned away from BABY P into looking for a political scapegoat.

The question I would ask to the NEIGHBOURS - FRIENDS - FAMILY - LOCAL AREA - etc of BABY P -.......where were YOU ? We are all more responsible for these things - we all turn a blind eye. The Police and Social Services are ordinary people who do the same.

Until society agrees to be more loving and caring and less judgemental then this problem will get worse. The media should leave the topic alone.