Hi JK

agree, Little Miss Sunshine is a wonderful film - it also filled the coffers for Fox Searchlight Pictures.

can we use it as a reference point for BGT?

I'm not convinced.

Little Miss Sunshine is a comedy-drama mixed with the pathos of a road-movie.

More importantly it is essentially a reference to folk poetry and theatre in the form of American burlesque.

For those who appreciate English literature we cast our minds back to the 14th century and the burlesque verse of Geoffrey Chaucer's satirical The Canterbury Tales.

just a thought

ty

I originally compared the show with Opportunity Knocks for a reason.

In the old Hughie Green show there was a winner each week and it ended there.

Currently it's like a long torturous process where people and children are put under huge pressure and the end process is strung out like a mystery film.

Some will handle it..some won't. Somewhere along the line a child will suffer badly. It's inevitable. In that sense it is a legalized way in which children can be psychologically abused.

Despite it being great entertainment with some going on to fame and riches (or re-hab for Susan), it is no different to how children have been sexualised in the advertising industry or taken advantage of to flog products to.

Some abuse is far more harmful than others. It would be argued by many psychistrists that a one-off sexual type touching of a child will be far less harmful (with full recovery with some therapy and proper parental love) than the type of psychologically pressure a child will be out one strung-out TV show.

But we know which one will grab the tabloid headlines.

BGT is just a symptom of all that is happening in the UK today, just how show business often reflects the way society is going.

Once you have that strange Prime Minister Gordon Brown sending his regards to Jade Goody and now Susan Boyle (a publicist's dream come true..now the Priory..can it get any better ?) you have politics neatly summed up...absolute crap served up to the masses to keep them diverted. But it's fun. We enjoy seeing a lot of losers and some winners.

The Beatles got their MBEs because they literally saved the UK economy by bring hundreds of millions £s into Britain and changed the balance of payments.

Maybe Susan Boyle will do the same ?

I remember Junior Showtime, and the Saturday morning "Going Live" kids talent shows which had stages over several weeks, with public voting, very much like BGT. So far as I recall, no kids were harmed in the making.

You said "people and children". I thought children were people, not a seperate species. Only one child in the history of BGT has broken down in tears, and she recovered to go on and compete in the final, and to cope admirably when she didn't win.

This kind of contest has been going on for decades and so far no child has suffered lasting scars. What is this child abuse argument actually based on? Where is the firm ground? Kids suffer more stress during exam time at school, or during sports period if that's something they are not good at. They are even forced to do sports at school, but nobody would seriously call that abuse.

BGT is voluntary. There is a fairly strict selection process, and much support for all contestants, not just children. The paranoia on this forum amazes me. All seemingly based on tabloid guff.

Remember the original "Lord of the Flies" movie? A group of ordinary schoolboys taken from their parents and kept on an island in bamboo huts until the movie was completed. Quite recently the actors were traced and offered counseling for any trauma they suffered during that time, because experts figured it must have been devastating for them. Every one of them said they had a great time and they'd let their own kids do it if their kids wanted to. It even inspired one to become a professional actor.

Has anyone one of you actually spoken to Hollie?

As is often the case, people with no connection think that they can speak on behalf of others they have never met and have no indepth knowledge of. They call for children to be denied opportunities, just to satisfy their own ideals. That, to me, is more of an abuse.

Give children the credit and respect they deserve.

Not an unexpected response.

Very sad really. Not worthy of any other response.

Julie from Herts wrote:
I remember Junior Showtime, and the Saturday morning "Going Live" kids talent shows which had stages over several weeks, with public voting, very much like BGT. So far as I recall, no kids were harmed in the making.

You said "people and children". I thought children were people, not a seperate species. Only one child in the history of BGT has broken down in tears, and she recovered to go on and compete in the final, and to cope admirably when she didn't win.

This kind of contest has been going on for decades and so far no child has suffered lasting scars. What is this child abuse argument actually based on? Where is the firm ground? Kids suffer more stress during exam time at school, or during sports period if that's something they are not good at. They are even forced to do sports at school, but nobody would seriously call that abuse.

BGT is voluntary. There is a fairly strict selection process, and much support for all contestants, not just children. The paranoia on this forum amazes me. All seemingly based on tabloid guff.

Remember the original "Lord of the Flies" movie? A group of ordinary schoolboys taken from their parents and kept on an island in bamboo huts until the movie was completed. Quite recently the actors were traced and offered counseling for any trauma they suffered during that time, because experts figured it must have been devastating for them. Every one of them said they had a great time and they'd let their own kids do it if their kids wanted to. It even inspired one to become a professional actor.

Has anyone one of you actually spoken to Hollie?

As is often the case, people with no connection think that they can speak on behalf of others they have never met and have no indepth knowledge of. They call for children to be denied opportunities, just to satisfy their own ideals. That, to me, is more of an abuse.

Give children the credit and respect they deserve.

NO

You are pretty well spot on.

Although a lot of child actors haven't made it into adulthood success, it would very difficult to know whether their life wouldn't have taken that course anyway, whatever they did.

I bet one thing..not one kid who had any success in show-biz as a child would ever want to give it up, given the choice.

Let children be children.

I find most talent shows for kids in bad taste. The reason being that adults tend to be the driving force behind such things.

By all means be talented. But why do you need to compete ?

I dont like reality shows - though I admit that Cowell and Co have discovered alot of talent in the last few years including Susan Boyle.

Susan Boyle will go on to sell millions of records. Diversity will do well but have no international appeal. Just read the comments on the forums of the DAILY MAIL - the USA people are massive fans of BOYLE and love her to bits. They want her to relocate there and cant understand the stupidity of the UK people to vote for a dance group instead of an international success who has crossed to every country of the World.

Susan Boyle is vulnerable ( as Hollie is ) and because of that we are all drawn to them. All of us are capable of cracking up and all of us have sometimes been pushed close to the edge. Anyone who says different has not lived..........

Abuse is when the person loses control. When others are dictating what happens and when what is happening is unpleasant and creates a situation where the person breaks down. Under that definition both Hollie and Susan have been abused by the makers of this programme. Both have been put in the position where they have been made very unhappy - and in one case hospitalised. I wonder how Hollie now feels ?

Abuse is not only about sex. Social Workers recognise "Emotional Abuse" - which is a criminal offence in its own right - but very difficult to prove.

In the UK we dont treat the vulnerable or old or kids with respect. We want them to grow up fast and we offer very little support to them. That is the mark of a very uncivilised society. I am sometimes very embarassed by this once great country. Our leaders and our media seems to use and abuse everyone.

We have a "Broken Society" in the UK which needs mending,.

Depends what you read, BR. I saw comments from Diversity fans from all over the world, Europe, USA, Asia. Their Youtube videos have worldwide appeal, for example.

Besides, this contest was about finding someone for the Royal Variety show, not for a long term recording contract.

I'm with you on this one, Julie. Although I think you'll find them a hard nosed, stubborn lot on here. Very set in their ways.

Eh?

Julie from Herts implied that I must be in trouble with the law or such like for criticising the abuse and expoloitation of a 10 year old for live entertainment.

She also claimed that I had no right to judge whether it is exploitation or child abuse because I am a man. She also claimed that I was 'using Holly Steel'!!!

Why is it legal to subject a 10 year old to such pressure for entertainment and yet looking at a sexy picture of a 17 year old on a computer is considered child abuse? That is a perfectly valid comparison to make.

I know that JK wants this thread closed, but one further thing I read today truly is obscene.

150 people complained to offcom that it was unfair giving 10 year old Holly Steel a second chance after her breakdown.

Only 50 people complained about the child abuse involved.

Obscene.

She didn't use any reason or logic, she merely made emotive and implicit slanderous accusations.

Sorry, but placing a 10 year old under that pressure is child abuse. Watching that show is a thousand times worse than looking at topless pics of a 17 year old (unless you believe that just about every single male pre 2003 was a child abuser).

By the way ZooLoo, every forum needs a joker, but when you're not funny, you're simply irritating.

I hope you'll approve this post JK (my last word on the topic) or I'm off.

PS : 200 people complained to Offcom about Hollie Steel, 150 saying the little bitch shouldn't have been given a second chance, 50 saying that child abuse should not be a national entertainment.

blackit wrote:
She didn't use any reason or logic, she merely made emotive and implicit slanderous accusations.

Sorry, but placing a 10 year old under that pressure is child abuse. Watching that show is a thousand times worse than looking at topless pics of a 17 year old (unless you believe that just about every single male pre 2003 was a child abuser).

By the way ZooLoo, every forum needs a joker, but when you're not funny, you're simply irritating.

I hope you'll approve this post JK (my last word on the topic) or I'm off.

PS : 200 people complained to Offcom about Hollie Steel, 150 saying the little bitch shouldn't have been given a second chance, 50 saying that child abuse should not be a national entertainment.
I wasn't joking.

Do try to spell my name correctly. It isn't difficult and some slight effort would be appreciated.

blackit wrote:
She didn't use any reason or logic, she merely made emotive and implicit slanderous accusations.



Absolute rubbish. My words were "Whatever is going on in your life." That does not amount to implicit slanderous accusation. We all have things going on in our lives. I was not the one using emotive language or making accusations regarding child abuse, but I think most people could see that.

I certainly do remember Lena Zavaroni, the child star who became famous through Opportunity Knocks and died aged 35 due to Anorexia.

Who can say that the anorexia was related to her performing at a very young age, it could be that she was prone to such a condition anyway, as thousands of other girls are.

robbiex wrote:
I certainly do remember Lena Zavaroni, the child star who became famous through Opportunity Knocks and died aged 35 due to Anorexia.

Who can say that the anorexia was related to her performing at a very young age, it could be that she was prone to such a condition anyway, as thousands of other girls are.
That is very pertinent point and needed saying.

Ta