www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1200069...igious-holidays.html

Our POLICE FORCE are in the grip of SATAN. They are infiltrated by EVIL people who practice witchcraft. But more than that THIS IS OFFICIALLY SANCTIONED to the extent they can take time off to carry out their sick and depraved rituals.

What more evidence do we need ?

The article says nothing about Satan. Neither do most witches {or wiccans or new agers or whatever else they want to call themselves} worship Satan or take part in "sick and depraved rituals". There is also zero evidence in the article to suggest that any police staff who are members of any of these strange cults {and I'd count Christianity as one too} have any undue influence over strategy, policy or any other sphere of police work.
This isn't a battle, neither is it an attempt to restart last week's arguments. It's simply pointing out that the article in no way reflects what you claim it does. Other than in the fact that it recognises that some policemen {or women} may be of a pagan persuasion. That may not fit in with your view of "moral" spirituality. But it's an accurate reflection of the society we live in. If that doesn't fit in with your beliefs as a Christian... well, sorry. It's not your place to criticise other peoples' religion or their religious practices. I have several friends who are wiccans. And while I do not share their beliefs I will not stand by and allow you to tar them as Satanists. While the article you quote discusses paganism, you have taken it to an extreme which would be potentially libelous were you to actually name anyone. You also grossly misrepresent a group of people who are just as entitled to their beliefs {and prejudices} as you are. The only difference I can see between you and them is that you blatantly advertise your own prejudices. You think these people spend all their time biting the heads off bats or something? Jesus, grow up.

I was pretty shocked to read this-that there were police who were actually Pagans!.

I think lockedout 's right on this one BR. I've always thought Pagans were a fairly peaceful bunch who believed in various rituals concerning the earth and seasons and such.

I'd actually welcome more police who were genuinely religious-maybe Buddhists..or true Christians (as opposed to the far-right wacko types in the USA).

I've known 2 detectives that attended Spiritualist churches-as I do,and I found them to be intelligent and the sort of good cop types that want to solve real crimes.

However-there's probably truth in your claim the devil has a hand in the workings of some cops.

Locked out I am happy that people choose a religion or a pagan ( Satan ) religion. The bible is quite clear in both the Old Testament and New Testament that pagan worship is Satan worship.

Today we see it dressed up with silly names like WICCANS and White Witches and New Age gobbledygook.

If paganism has no power then I suggest you read the article again where Pagan Plod says it has the power to get him promotion.

Now that is hardly fair in an equal opportunities society. Christians believe that God will put them where he wants them - not necessarily in "power" above others.

For Satanists and Pagans it is all about "Power" it is the Luciferian Agenda ( google it and read up on it because I am not going to do your research for you )

The Police supposedly are an equal opportunities employer yet this "Pagan" is quoted in this article as having said something which is totally against equal opportunities - how can that be ?

There is much about the way in which Luciferian ritual has seeped into Masons ( Again well represented in the police ) and other secret societies like BOHEMIAN GROVE ( taking place this week - again google and you will learn about what these people do )

You may say that it is harmless fun.

Well I am offended by Pagans and Satanists. I dont want a Christian State ( which is where I live ) to start allowing Pagans and Satanists to have control of power over me or any of my friends.

I believe they have the free will to practice their religion. But not to bring it and subsidise it with my taxes. I dont think there should be a Christian or Muslim or Gay or Black Police society either. The POLICE should not have FACTIONS. This is why the UK police is racist and sexist and Satanist.

Religion should be kept out of public services. It is noticable that if you are in the NHS you have to COVER UP YOUR CROSS and CHAPELS have to COVER any Christian symbols............are you not getting the drift yet ?> Our society is not only becoming non religious the PC Fascists are substituting worship of Lucifer as the state religion.

It is quite clear to most Christians and Islamics and Jews and Hindus - we all respect each other because we believe in a creator God who loves us and calls us to love each other.

I dont criticise you for standing up for your pagan friends - please dont criticise me for believing in God and Jesus. I realise your sentence included at the end what is called Blashemy and was to rub it in. Dont worry I can see where you are coming from......I will not insult you or anyone else's beliefs by belittling them. Paganism is real and works and has been around since Creation - that is a fact as you rightly point out. It is my choice not to want it in my life and as the State religion.

"Locked out I am happy that people choose a religion or a pagan ( Satan ) religion."

You're all too obviously not happy about this at all, so why say you are?

"The bible is quite clear in both the Old Testament and New Testament that pagan worship is Satan worship."

Your entire argument is based on the assumption that yours is the true religion and therefore you have a right to condemn and smear. While you're entitled to that viewpoint I would contend that other people {like Moslems, Buddhists, Hindus, Scientologists and Wiccans} are also entitled to theirs without you sitting in judgement over them and making sweeping {and possibly - even likely - untrue} generalisations.

"Today we see it dressed up with silly names like WICCANS and White Witches and New Age gobbledygook."

Call them what you like. But you should remember that in a world context Christianity is a minority religion practiced by a minority of the world population. Therefore the wider view of your own beliefs would be that they are also "gobbledygook".

"If paganism has no power then I suggest you read the article again where Pagan Plod says it has the power to get him promotion."

Actually, what the article says is this;
"One of them is even planning to publish details of his spells to help colleagues gain promotion or overcome illness.",
which isn't quite the same thing, is it?
You might equally say that a plod who worships at the same church as his chief constable is only doing so to curry favour. Or maybe {and this is actually a more likely scenario} PC Plod might make judicious use of golf club membership or any form of public service to gain advancement. Would you come here wittering about the evils of golf or charity work? I know neither is comparable, but if you can stretch things that much so can I.

"Now that is hardly fair in an equal opportunities society. Christians believe that God will put them where he wants them - not necessarily in "power" above others."

Now you're beginning to sound like George Bush. At the same time you are alleging that personal ambition is something which is shunned by Christians. I look around me and see that this is patently not the case.

"For Satanists and Pagans it is all about "Power" it is the Luciferian Agenda ( google it and read up on it because I am not going to do your research for you )"

And yet the most powerful nation on Earth is headed by a Christian, the latest in a long line of Christians. The leaders of all the nations of the free world {you'll note I use the term "free world"} would all claim to be Christian. I don't know any pagans {and I include myself because I am an atheist} who have an unhealthy desire for power. I do know Tony Blair is a Christian. What does that tell you? And believe me, BR, I don't need you to do my research for me. Why on earth do you think I do?

"The Police supposedly are an equal opportunities employer yet this "Pagan" is quoted in this article as having said something which is totally against equal opportunities - how can that be ?"

I'm not about to justify anything in the article. As far as I'm concerned anyone who uses religion of any kind - your own included - is making use of a prop rather than logical conclusion to further their arguments. You're all as bad as each other.

"...There is much about the way in which Luciferian ritual has seeped into Masons ( Again well represented in the police ) and other secret societies like BOHEMIAN GROVE ( taking place this week - again google and you will learn about what these people do )



You may say that it is harmless fun."

Here we go again. Your strange need to be seen as someone who knows about things other people do not.

I know about Bohemian Grove. I also know that it's so secretive that no one has been able to get into it. The only pictures I've ever seen have been indistinct, blurry images showing what is alleged to be the owl-god Molloch being worshipped by a load of 1950s film stars and US Presidents. I've read many reports which offer much speculation and no evidence. So I think I do know something about it. Not as much as you, obviously. But I'd contend that you yourself don't know that much {how could you given the famously tight lipped reputation of the place}, and what you do know is based on conspiracy theorist "research" and David Icke books.
From what people like Alex Jones say about it I'd say it was far from "harmless fun". But Alex Jones is not the font of all wisdom and the truth is that, as with Bilderberg, we genuinely have no real idea of what takes place. Until a decent piece of real investigative journalism is mounted neither I - nor you - know.

"Well I am offended by Pagans and Satanists. I dont want a Christian State ( which is where I live ) to start allowing Pagans and Satanists to have control of power over me or any of my friends."

We'll come back to this later.

"I believe they have the free will to practice their religion. But not to bring it and subsidise it with my taxes. I dont think there should be a Christian or Muslim or Gay or Black Police society either. The POLICE should not have FACTIONS. This is why the UK police is racist and sexist and Satanist."

But the police is made up of members of the society we live in. Which includes all of the above. It's only right that we have gays, lesbians, blacks, and Moslems in the police force. You don't want them to be sexist or racist, but you DO want them to descriminate against pagans? That's just crazy.

"Religion should be kept out of public services. It is noticable that if you are in the NHS you have to COVER UP YOUR CROSS and CHAPELS have to COVER any Christian symbols............are you not getting the drift yet ?> Our society is not only becoming non religious the PC Fascists are substituting worship of Lucifer as the state religion.

OK. Let's go back to your earlier statement " I dont want a Christian State ( which is where I live ) to start allowing Pagans and Satanists to have control of power over me or any of my friends".

Firstly I'd contend that we DON'T live in a Christian state {and you'll notice that I do not capitalise that "s"}. Show me the full churches. Show me the Christian values of charity and forgiveness informing public opinion. Show me where this "Christian state" is in any way a reality and I'll believe you. By implication you go on to say that although you don't want to have paganism forced on you you're perfectly happy for Christianity to be forced on Jews, Muslims, Hindus et al . The reality, of course, is that even if this were a Christian society it was in, say 1860 {with the age of consent at 11 and children up chimnies or dead under looms}, the prevailing religion would not be "forced" on anyone". It never has been here. Why would that be about to change?
Secondly...

"Religion should be kept out of public services."

This statement is clearly out of kilter with your earlier one. If this is indeed a Christian state, why should that not inform and advise public services. I'd have thought that it would be an invaluable tool in ensuring fairness and an equable distribution of those services. In any case, I cannot help but notice the dichotomy between ""Religion should be kept out of public services."

and;

"It is noticable that if you are in the NHS you have to COVER UP YOUR CROSS and CHAPELS have to COVER any Christian symbols..."

Which, I woder, is your true view? Whichever, this is something of a red herring, but I'll address it anyway. My answer to it is that it shouldn't even be a talking point. If you wish to wear a crucifix that's fine. It's a symbol of your religion. As is an anq, a Star of David or a burqa. I've never heard of a chapel being forced to cover its Christian symbols, but if that's the case then that's plainly wrong too.

"are you not getting the drift yet ?"

I think I already had it, thank you.

"Our society is not only becoming non religious..."

It isn't "becoming". It's a secular society and has been for a long time.

"...the PC Fascists are substituting worship of Lucifer as the state religion."

Ah yes. If all else fails blame the "PC Brigade". It never fails to amaze me that people who use this argument are, in fact, contending that we would be much better with a politically incorrect alternative. The bit about fascists forcing the worship of Lucifer is, perhaps, an overstatement. I don't feel that anyone is forcing me to worship anything, which sort of suits me fine.

"It is quite clear to most Christians and Islamics and Jews and Hindus - we all respect each other because we believe in a creator God who loves us and calls us to love each other."

I'll take your word for it. However, I see precious little evidence.

"I dont criticise you for standing up for your pagan friends - please dont criticise me for believing in God and Jesus."

I didn't. There was nothing in my reply which made any of the rude and objective comments which were a feature of your critique of the article. Let me remind you of the following words. "EVIL people...sick and depraved rituals." I made no such remarks about your faith, nor would I. Do unto others...

"I realise your sentence included at the end what is called Blashemy and was to rub it in.

It's called "blasphemy" by a Christian minority. To many others it's just another expression, in my case one of exasperation at an intolerant and misinformed posting. Rub what in?

"Dont worry I can see where you are coming from......I will not insult you or anyone else's beliefs by belittling them."

And your depicting of the entire pagan way of life as "Satanic" isn't doing just that?

"Paganism is real and works and has been around since Creation - that is a fact as you rightly point out.

It works in exactly the same way as all other religions: ie it's a prop on which to hang your own personal prejuduces without having to justify or qualify them and a benchmark by which "believers" judge everybody else.

"It is my choice not to want it in my life and as the State religion."

I don't believe anything in that article suggests that that is about to happen. What you do or don't have in your life is largely up to you. Please don't suggest that it is otherwise.

BR, I'd be interested to hear your views on the fact that the the two biggest Christian holidays fall on the same dates as ancient Pagan celebrations of the passage of the sun.

I wonder how much digging you do on the origins of your own religion.

Origanised reilgion is an ancient tool, designed and implemented by the same people who you constantly rail against (i.e. the monied elite).

Quite simply, it's the biggest lie (or conspiracy theory) of all time.

presumably you'd say I am doing the work of Satan, BR, as I have been a practising Buddhist for 20 years.

Your views on Paganism are rather ignorant I have to say. I know a few pagans and they are very decent people indeed with solid values.

Christians in Britain adopted holiday dates which already existed to avoid having to mess people about too much. The way Easter and Christmas are celebrated today has more to do with tradition and culture than with actual religion. Winter Solstice, btw, ends on 23 December, so does not clash with Christmas. Saturnalia had gone way down the pan by the time Christmas came along.

When you examine Christian teaching, all other religions are in some way serving the devil, even though that might be unintentional. If BR is a Christian then he is right to stand by the teachings of his own chosen religion. Nobody else is forced to agree with him, but he is entitled to his belief.

I agree that organised religion can be used as an oppressive tool, but that is seprerate from genuine indivual faith or belief. Ultimately we must all be true to what we personally believe in.

My argument is simple:

The Police should not be factionalised because it compromises their work.

I dont agree with Christian Police Asssociations.

I dont agree with Pagan Police Associations or Black or Gay.

As a taxpayer I pay the Police to do their job. They dont do that.

To take 8 extra days off is bound to effect their work.

As for arguing about religion - there is no point. It is a matter of belief and faith.

There are only 365 days a year - therefore having mid summer or mid winter festivals seems a good time for any religion or body to hold an event. The seasons dictated festivals. Pagans main festival is the mid summer solstice : there is no Christian festival at that time.

I have no wish to close down Pagans. I hope they feel the same and allow Christians to carry on wearing crosses and worshipping and evangelising ( if they wish ) and having Chapels in hospitals etc etc.

Our Police should not allow anyone with any allegiance or position in any other organisation. BNP - PAGAN - MAINSTREAM RELIGIOUS MINISTER etc etc

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12002...Solstice-Sarge-.html

Funny and 86% believe my view that all Police should be equal and this is wrong in the poll on that page !!!

I'm leaning toward's BR's view..I'm not too happy with the idea of cult police associations with a certain bent..as in this Paganism one.

I've no quibbles with any person having a religion-bringing into the workplace is a small step to the probelems you find in the USA with the Christian Right weilding amazing power and even assisting in the promotion of the invasion of Iraq.

But then I also believe in Lucifer..not as a form but a mentality and there are many who pose as Christians who are in reality fellower travellers of the Devil

The phrophet Jesus Christ predicted this and as I regard him as the first Socialist (a typical Jewish leftie) I hang on his words which all sound pretty good to me if you can filter out the horrors of the bible that cause so much angst.