Everyone pleads guilty; may I remind you, whilst this does not mean they are innocent, it also does not mean they are guilty.

Listen to my lyric on Plead Guilty to understand.

Many (most) sensible people assume a guilty plea means guilt.

It doesn't.

VEry strange story - looks like an internet porn set up for money.

It comes to something that you send you kids to Nursery and then their photos end up being brought and sold as porn.

Very strange and possibly very sick.

Looks to me as if we now see everything as a money making opportunity in New Labour's - what a statement on our Society under this Government.

JK2006 wrote:
Everyone pleads guilty; may I remind you, whilst this does not mean they are innocent, it also does not mean they are guilty.

Listen to my lyric on Plead Guilty to understand.

Many (most) sensible people assume a guilty plea means guilt.

It doesn't.

Of course we cannot be certain about guilt,I should know that as much as anyone.
There does seem to be a lot of relevant prosecution evidence,shame this could not be tested in court.Do we know if they had a specialist lawyer? The local duty solicitor is most surely a direct to jail card.

What I would like to point out is that there are both innocent and guilty people involved in this kind of trial.It is not just enough to acquit the innocent,but also to punish the guilty.Both are important,an imbalance in either.

It is almost impossible to know the truth, if you really care about that. So many exaggerations and inflations by police, for a better case, by the media, for a better story. The older I get the more ghastly this world seems to get.

JK2006 wrote:
It is almost impossible to know the truth, if you really care about that. So many exaggerations and inflations by police, for a better case, by the media, for a better story. The older I get the more ghastly this world seems to get.

I saw a man get 10 years for cocaine smuggling at Canterbury CC the other week,judge said it would have been 15 years had he not pleaded guilty.
Funny thing was the prosecution called it a 'big haul',valued it at around 350k street value.We all know they inflate that to look good,it seems an awful lot of prison time for what was really only a few grams of a drug imported from fellow EU country Belgium.

Things no paper will ask... if the abuse was so awful, how come there has been no infant in hospital or at a doctor? How come even the police say they will never be able to identify the victims? Something really stinks about this (like the coconut shell murder) but worst of all is - why doesn't anyone in the mainstream media ask "What?".

"why doesn't anyone in the mainstream media ask "What?".

..because of the 24 hour news cycle and they just don't have real investigative reporters anymore.

Just 2 or 3 agencies pumping out the same stuff worldwide which makes me wonder how on earth they will get people to pay for on-line content unless they re-employ really good journalists.

We can't know for certain whether they are guilty or not, but one thing I have not heard touched upon by the media, or anyone else, is that each of these people must have passed a CRB check. Doesn't this show how useless CRB checks really are?

The woman had a CRB check. She passed!

I toured a few boards looking at reaction to this subject. Here are some of my thoughts.

A person may admit guilt to avoid a more serious charge, even if innocent, because they feel so desperate. I have witnessed this a few times. It might be suggested to them that to avoid a charge of attempted rape and the prospect of a very long sentence they could admit to indecent assault. Many fall for this.

Reports claim the the police were appalled at the seriousness of the photographs they seized. They have been known to make similar claims about images which only show a boy with his shirt off. Key wording has major impact. "Children" "images" "Police are appalled", etc. None of those words really tell us the truth. Even the word seized is used for dramatic effect as, quite often, items are handed over voluntarily and not 'seized' at all.

This morning a government spokesman interviewed on BBC Radio 4 claimed that while CRB checks can't see inside someone's mind, they can prevent people who already have convictions from working with children. In fact, for many years, anyone applying to work with children (professionally) has had to undergo a police check as standard practice. The new CRB system does add such a requirement to voluntary workers, but this case shows the limitations of such a scheme. Even when a full CRB check is made it cannot detect future behaviour or intention. As it would have been easier to simply extend the usual standard police check to voluntary workers, I have to assume that this system is intended for more than has so far been admitted. Is it more about further controlling the populace than about protecting children? The best way to protect children is through vigilance and common sense, not through creating a system which creates false false perceptions (i.e. he's got a CRB certificate so he's safe, even though it proves nothing of the kind).

And let me suggest - the reason none of the paedos can reveal the names of the victims may be that there are no victims.

A combination of innocent photos of sleeping children, graphic photoshop, existing kiddy porn from the web - and voila - filthy pics of children who simply do not exist.

"Tell us their names!".

We are living in a very strange world.

JK2006 wrote:
And let me suggest - the reason none of the paedos can reveal the names of the victims may be that there are no victims.

A combination of innocent photos of sleeping children, graphic photoshop, existing kiddy porn from the web - and voila - filthy pics of children who simply do not exist.

"Tell us their names!".

We are living in a very strange world.

That's the shame of the guilty plea,if they could have had a good private defense team from the start,not the probable local legal aid police station lawyer then we may well have seen something different.It may well have been fantasy combined with modern computer technology.We really need independent forensic evidence,not the police version to get to the real truth.Anything coming out of a biased government back agency is going to be inflated,they have to do this,to justify the large amounts of wasted public money we give them.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1217415...-young-children.html

Just to take the media frenzy a step further the Mail now has a headline about how she's going to be anonymous on release,and how 'we' will have to pay for it.
But hey,just a mo,she's not even been sentenced yet.Secondly even the mail admits they can only apply for this near the end of her sentence,and the Mail does mention it will probably be a long one.Thirdly this threat of violence to their person...isn't it being whipped up by the media in the first place? The very same media that is complaining about us having to pay for it?

Baby P was abused - and there was shedloads of medical evidence to support this.

Where is the medical evidence to back up the Police claims.....

That has been bugging me about this case. It does not add up. The three people are obviously quite weird - but that is not a crime. The woman HAD teenage daughters - how could she do this when surely her phone and internet would be shared with her family ? How could they have not known or suspected ?

Too many unanswered questions.

"We don't know the identity of the victims and may never know..." so say the police. Very odd indeed. I reckon the accused will suddenly name half a dozen children in order to get a lesser sentence (none of whom will have been abused at all but all of whom will suffer as a consequence of the witch hunt for the rest of their lives).

And where are the investigative journalists looking into this "Nursery Cryme"?

Sheep. Baaaaaaaaaa

I'm not that aufait with the tale but I am finding the demands that the perpetuators name the victims rather odd. I can't see it helping anyone.

I'm sure there would be angst amongst some parents but given the age group there really should be a case of better of not knowing and letting time heal any pain.

Amazing but expected Sunday coverage - monster, monster, destroy their families - but nobody seems interested in the amazing ability of Vanessa George and two other total strangers to conceal the identity of each and every child involved.

With the News of the World's love of Photoshop, you'd think they and the other tabloids would be falling over each other to offer these wizards jobs.

My God, police find paedophiles in Thailand and the most amazing perverts through tiny clues in photos yet these three have totally concealed all possible identification although the neighbourhoods are quite clear.

Am I being cynical?

Is this going to be yet another "cleared after 20 years" story for the future? False confessions under pressure are not uncommon. I'm not claiming that these confessions are false; I couldn't possibly know either way, but so many people seem to want it to be true despite there being no identifiable victims and no child, despite the certainty that current and former pupils will have been questioned by "experts", has made any form of complaint.

A very suitable quote from Rumpole of the Bailey. "There is no piece of evidence more unreliable than a confession!" The stories may have been fiction but they were written by a barrister and contained much truth about the system.

Hubby of accused Nursery worker no doubt smells the rustling of notes as his complete disappearance suddenly ends for a newspaper interview.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1218011...dentify-victims.html

Remember the marriage vows,'for better or worse',obviously he only remembers 'for richer or poorer'....and he probably only heard the 'richer' part.

of course I forgot about the very important compensation angle. If they remain silent..perhaps everyone can claim !

The NoTW tale today with the husband and daughters is extraordinary-complete with the father apparently being able to give permission to publish his underaged daughter's photographs!

But the comments that follow show how screwy it's all become..praising them endlessly because they were paid for the story !.

talk about twisted values