Despite the fact that we have the highest unemployment for over 20 years, this government are continuing to encourage mass immigration from Eastern Europe and the Indian sub-continent. My friend has been searching for 4 months for work, and the only work he can find is wiping the bums of elderly people as a social carer. This is a disgrace, there is no shortage of labour in this country, so we don't need cheap labour from abroad.

They always say that there is a shortage of skills in this country, however more people are going to University than ever. I work in IT and people are been employed from fresh from India, despite the fact that over 20 skilled people from the UK have applied for this job. This is not a shortage of skills, it is the fact that they are open to working long hours without question.

How long can this go on for, until we all have to live in Tower blocks because there isn't enough room on the ground to sustain us all. I'm sorry if this sounds like a BR rant, but hey we were all getting withdrawal symptoms.

In my rural area of Britain we have very few immigrants. I'm sure it's a different picture in the large towns and cities.

the problem is everyone is encouraged to pick the wrong target-the immigrants themselves.
You can't blame anyone for wanting to get to a better place.

It's corporations and government who are at fault-they want cheap labour. They don't care if it's you or them.

veritas wrote:
the problem is everyone is encouraged to pick the wrong target-the immigrants themselves.
You can't blame anyone for wanting to get to a better place.

It's corporations and government who are at fault-they want cheap labour. They don't care if it's you or them.

Couldn't have put it better though I would add that the benefits system in place in the Uk does encourage fit British people to claim they cannot afford to work, while immigrants come in, live 12 to a house and are happy to work for minimum wages.

I would add that the benefits system in place in the Uk does encourage fit British people to claim they cannot afford to work, while immigrants come in, live 12 to a house and are happy to work for minimum wages.

I would say that many British people cannot afford to work, house prices are so vastly over-inflated. Also living 12 to a house has massive social issues, causing a burden on the health service, public transport, road congestion, and poor public health. How would you like to live next to a house of 12 polish people (or any other nationality).

The "free movement of labour" - guaranteed by the EU works BOTH ways.

There are currently 2.5 million Brits living in Spain.

You can't have it both ways !

In The Know wrote:
The "free movement of labour" - guaranteed by the EU works BOTH ways.

There are currently 2.5 million Brits living in Spain.

You can't have it both ways !


There are a lot more people coming in than going out. There may be 2.5 million brits living in Spain, when we go over there we complain about how it has ruined the traditionl spanish flavour of the place (e.g Ibiza, Magaluf, Costa del Sol) and how it is all British pubs and very tacky. We should equally complain about many places in Britain that have lost their British identity, like Bradford, Southall, Leicester, Wembley, Harrow, Oldham, and many many other places. These places are full of Indians, indian restaurants and supermarkets, ruining the British identity.

These 2.5 million people have probably moved there over a large number of years or decades even, and many of them are returning home because of the low value of the Euro. 600,000 poles moved to Britain in just 2 years, this is a relatively small island, about 1/3 of the size of Spain*. The population of the UK has increased by 5 million in less than a decade, We just cannot cope with these numbers.

I love foreign travel and experiencing other cultures, this is why I would like each country to maintain some of it's traditions rather than every country been one big melting pot.

Robbie, I think you may be an idealist old son.

robbiex wrote:

These 2.5 million people have probably moved there over a large number of years or decades even, and many of them are returning home because of the low value of the Euro.

Really? That would be the Euro which is outperforming the Pound Sterling? The Pound is worth less against the Euro than it was last week. Much less than it was last year. I find your assertion hard to believe. Unless you're talking about truly stupid people {and in my experience of expats in Spain they tend to be pretty canny when it comes to matters fiscal} "returning home".

robbiex wrote:

600,000 poles moved to Britain in just 2 years, this is a relatively small island, about 1/3 of the size of Spain*. The population of the UK has increased by 5 million in less than a decade, We just cannot cope with these numbers.

You'd better hope, then, that you're wrong about those Brits returning home. As you point out, many of them have been there for decades. Most are beyond retiring age and therefore will contribute much less to the national economy than the Poles {who pay full UK tax on their earnings}. You complain about the burden on {and I quote} health service, public transport, road congestion, and poor public health. All of which will be subjected to massive increases in usage by your projected returning, largely elderly, migrant community.

robbiex wrote:

I love foreign travel and experiencing other cultures, this is why I would like each country to maintain some of it's traditions rather than every country been one big melting pot.

Don't make me laugh. We've been chucking away our own traditions quite happily for years. We laugh at Morris dancers {yeah, OK, me too...}, all our Bank Holidays are little more than film and booze fests and we treat our history with utter contempt. And we do all these things with absolutely no help from Bangladeshis, Poles, Indians and Ukrainians. When was the last time you went Pace-Egging? Do you even know what it was? And do you even care?
Germany maintains many of its traditions,as do many other European countries. Few treat them with as much disregard as we have done. Us. Not those who choose to come and reside here from abroad. And, incidentally, it's "being", not "been".

Rant Over.

You'd better hope, then, that you're wrong about those Brits returning home. As you point out, many of them have been there for decades. Most are beyond retiring age and therefore will contribute much less to the national economy than the Poles {who pay full UK tax on their earnings}. You complain about the burden on {and I quote} health service, public transport, road congestion, and poor public health. All of which will be subjected to massive increases in usage by your projected returning, largely elderly, migrant community.


I'm not advocating that all British ex-pats come home. By your assertion it all boils down to money and how we should fill the country with mainly young full tax paying people. You have to remember when migrants come over from Eastern Europe, Extra teachers have to be drafted in to be able to cope with non-English speaking languages. Do they pay more to cover this extra cost, I don't think so!! Don't get me started on how much crime the Eastern Europeans bring with them. Human traffiking is a major problem in this country and the government is doing virtually nothing to stop it. These people can dissappear into society and get away with these crimes, because the government has no handle on immigration. You say that the people that come over are mainly young working people, well my friend you have to remember that when they come over they put a usually young working British person on the dole queue, so your economic arguments don't add up. If there was a shortage of labour, like in the 60's and early 70's then there would be an argument for getting more immigrants, but now we have 2.5 million unemployed and rising.

When I was talking about English traditions, I wasn't talking about silly things like Morris dancing and cheese rolling. I'm talking about English food. How many restaurants do you see compared to about 20 years ago, they have been replaced by mainly Indian restaurants catering for lager louts, downing a pharl after 8 pints of beer. How many Fish and Chip shops have closed, replaced by Kebab shops and Indian takeaways, far too many. Places like Harrow and Wembley have become more like Delhi, filled with Mosques, Indian restaurants, and indian cornershops.

Another thing that annoys me is when people say that British people don't really won't to work. I've worked in a company with a 90% Indian workforce in Harrow, which had 200 employees. The rate of absenteism at this place was astronomical,with some people taking up to 36 sick days a year.

robbiex wrote:
[quote]

Don't get me started on how much crime the Eastern Europeans bring with them.

I think you are so totally ignorant about Eastern Europe. It is a huge part of our continent, yet you lump 'them' all together as if they are all the same.

Do you make any distinction between Hungarians and Russians? Latvians and Slovenians? Some of these countries are further from each other geographically and culturally than we are from, say, Spain or Italy (presuming you know what a map of Europe looks like ...)

The only connection many so called 'Eastern European' countries have with each other is that for 40 years they were under communist dictatorships.

So which countries are you talking about when you say that Eastern Europeans are responsble for crime? Please name countries and figures. And if you find figures for a couple of countries, then drop your 'eastern europe' label and focus on just those countries.

robbiex wrote:

I'm not advocating that all British ex-pats come home. By your assertion it all boils down to money and how we should fill the country with mainly young full tax paying people.

Where did I say anything like that? Where does the word "young" appear anywhere in my posting?

robbiex wrote:
You have to remember when migrants come over from Eastern Europe, Extra teachers have to be drafted in to be able to cope with non-English speaking languages.

You're the one who was complaining about immigration causing unemployment. You're now, it appears, complaining about the opposite.

robbiex wrote:
Do they pay more to cover this extra cost, I don't think so!!

Then you "think" {are you sure you do?} wrong. That's where a part of those taxes they're paying goes.

robbiex wrote:
Don't get me started on how much crime the Eastern Europeans bring with them.

OK, I won't. Mainly because that's yet another bit of far-right propaganda. And I'd rather not hear the lie yet again.

robbiex wrote:
Human traffiking is a major problem in this country and the government is doing virtually nothing to stop it. These people can dissappear into society and get away with these crimes, because the government has no handle on immigration.

Wrong again. The Government investigated this "problem" last year. Their results were widely derided by genuine investigators who came to the conclusion that the report amounted to a huge exaggeration.There is virtually no trafficking {note the spelling?} going on here. Even less at the hands of "Eastern Europeans".

robbiex wrote:
You say that the people that come over are mainly young working people,

No I don't. I said "...the Poles {who pay full UK tax on their earnings}..." Nothing about age at all.


robbiex wrote:
well my friend you have to remember that when they come over they put a usually young working British person on the dole queue, so your economic arguments don't add up.

Well, that's the free market for you. Would you prefer communism?

robbiex wrote:
If there was a shortage of labour, like in the 60's and early 70's then there would be an argument for getting more immigrants, but now we have 2.5 million unemployed and rising.

And yet they're here, they're working harder {and longer} than our home grown product are prepared to do and they're paying their taxes. Nett benefit to the economy, no matter how you dress it up.

robbiex wrote:
When I was talking about English traditions, I wasn't talking about silly things like Morris dancing and cheese rolling. I'm talking about English food. How many restaurants do you see compared to about 20 years ago, they have been replaced by mainly Indian restaurants catering for lager louts, downing a pharl after 8 pints of beer. How many Fish and Chip shops have closed, replaced by Kebab shops and Indian takeaways, far too many. Places like Harrow and Wembley have become more like Delhi, filled with Mosques, Indian restaurants, and indian cornershops.

So you're being minutely selective about what you would preserve. I have to say that what you value as "tradition" is worryingly narrow. You think that's what should define us as a nation? No other cultural life or expression? You're not really disturbed at all by the loss of "our" traditions, are you? When all boils down to all, you're shrieking this loudly about losing "English" restaurants. I don't remember anything like an "English" restaurant ever being a large part of English cultural life. You obviously do. Care to name even one famous one? Your descriptions of "Indian" restaurants are completely alien to me. I'm a tremendous aficionado, and none of the ones I use are anything like your claim avers. As for the decline of the fish and chip shop, I can assure you that it's alive and well here in the north of England. I rarely use them. Used to, but these days the chips are never properly cooked and they rarely represent good value.
You really don't like Asians, do you?
By the way, a Mosque is not an eating establishment.

robbiex wrote:
Another thing that annoys me is when people say that British people don't really won't to work. I've worked in a company with a 90% Indian workforce in Harrow, which had 200 employees. The rate of absenteism at this place was astronomical,with some people taking up to 36 sick days a year.

I have nothing to say on this subject. Other than to note that it has even less to do with the posting you were apparently addressing than the rest of your evil little missive.

Read my posting again, which was confined exclusively to addressing the question of 2.5 million Brits living in Spain and your allegation that they were returning home. Perhaps you might actually like to reply to that instead of setting up fallacious {and utterly ignorant and uninformed} straw men?

You don't actually say that the poles are young, however you do infer that the ex-pats are old and wouldn't be earning anything if they came home as they are well past retirement age.

You say that I don't like Asians, well I give an Asian guy a lift to work everyday. the fact about the company in Harrow having a large degree of absenteism was just delivering facts and countering the commonly held belief that British People don't wan't to work and Asians are such great workers. Many jobs from the uk have gone to India (such as call centres and IT jobs, also many come over her and take the jobs too). I think you will find that India is not in the EU and therefore the free labour market does not apply to them.

You also say that I have far right views. This is completely wrong, I stand up for the rights of working class people. That group of people who have been sadly sidelined in by New Labour and seem to be the lowest priority behing pandering to big business. I would never vote Tory. The tory owning bosses just love mass immigration because it provides plenty of cheap labour for them and they don't have to live in areas amongst them.

JK on immigrants - I'm totally in favour of as many different races in the country as possible - I'm also in favour of retaining regional cultural influences and keeping bad people out whilst encouraging good people to prosper. Easier said than done, and not as simple as it sounds but nothing at all to do with races. Since a bad person can be British or Pakistani, male or female, young or old - I don't think one connects with the other.

robbiex wrote:


You also say that I have far right views. This is completely wrong, I stand up for the rights of working class people.

You have previously spoken up in favour of the BNP, whose leader Nick Griffin described working class people as "scum".

david wrote:
robbiex wrote:


You also say that I have far right views. This is completely wrong, I stand up for the rights of working class people.

You have previously spoken up in favour of the BNP, whose leader Nick Griffin described working class people as "scum".


I haven't previously spoken up for, or voted for the BNP. I have just said there is a lot of hypocracy from New Labour, saying that the BNP is racist and anti-muslim, when New Labour are responsible for the deaths of 1000's of innocent muslims.

I don't really care what Nick Griffin may or may not have said about the working class (Theres no actual evidence), the fact remains that mass immigration is detremental to the working class (i.e. those that don't own the means of labour). It would be pretty difficult to argue otherwise.

robbie, you have spoken up in favour of their policy of distinguishing 'ethnic foreigners'- a very slippery slope to embark on.

by the way, you haven't answered my points above highlighting your extreme ignorance of what you call 'Eastern Europe'. Please know your facts before you post. Did you know certain parts of what is calle Eastern Europe are actually this side of Italy?

Arr, I see you're still not reading. I didn't say you have right wing views, I said that the notion that Eastern Europeans are typically responsible for being involved in crime is right wing propaganda. Read it again.
However, if you are claiming not to have far right views, may I simply put this in front of you. You posted it here 3 weeks and 3 days ago. If you consider what you wrote to be the truth you are either even further to the right than the BNP or display a truly astounding lack of political judgment. Which is it?

robbiex wrote:
The BNP aren't a fascist party and to say that they are is been over dramatic. Having an opinion on immigration is miles away from wanting to exterminate jews.....

....So please don't just read the 'fascist monster' headlines in the tabloids and have a serious think about why people vote for bnp, including their latest member Rajinder Singh a retired seikh.

I refer you to the "BNP ditch all white rule" thread for your full statements on the issue.

david wrote:
robbiex wrote:


You also say that I have far right views. This is completely wrong, I stand up for the rights of working class people.

You have previously spoken up in favour of the BNP, whose leader Nick Griffin described working class people as "scum".
The difference between Nick Griffin and Gordon Brown is that Nick Griffin calls the working class scum (alledgedly!!), whereas Gordon Brown treats them like scum. I know what i prefer.

Nobody has done anything serious about immigration since Thatcher in the 1980s.
There are two types of immigration,useful & not.We need to limit the not,while encouraging the useful.
Truth of the matter is that a lot of our previous economic growth was on the back of having at hand a mobile immigrant workforce that helped investors get enterprise going.Many other EU countries like France/Germany lost out as a result of limiting immigration a few years ago.
Now of course we need less immigration,in certain places,so as to give locals more of a chance.Problem here is they are not up to the standards of the immigrants.This will give mixed results,& if too strictly adhered to may well limit the chance of economic recovery.

There is no right answer,just getting it done as well as possible,while leaving open the door to flexibility as needs dictate.