cartoon

















IMPORTANT NOTE:
You do NOT have to register to read, post, listen or contribute. If you simply wish to remain fully anonymous, you can still contribute.





Lost Password?
No account yet? Register
King of Hits
Home arrow Forums
Messageboards
Welcome, Guest
Please Login or Register.    Lost Password?
Why arent the UNIONS blaming GORDON BROWN for the cuts ?
Go to bottomPost New TopicPost Reply
TOPIC: Why arent the UNIONS blaming GORDON BROWN for the cuts ?
#62350
BR

Why arent the UNIONS blaming GORDON BROWN for the cuts ? 13 Years, 7 Months ago  
The UNIONS are strutting and the BBC and SKY are giving them max coverage.

BROWN ran up a TRILLION pounds of debt. It has to be sorted out.

What is the alternative to cuts ? There does not seem to be any.

Let's cut NON ESSENTIALS.

FAT CATS

POLICE

JUSTICE SYSTEM ( Close down HALF the Prisons and only jail those who are violent and dangerous. The rest get community sentences )

JOBSWORTHS

NON JOBS ( must be around 100,000 non jobs in the Public Sector )


The PUBLIC SECTOR is bloated and the biggest employer in the UK. Those of us who work in the Private Sector subsidise these jobsworths and most of us earn far less and have a far more risky lifestyle.

Why should WE in the PRIVATE SECTOR subsidise the waste in the Public Services.

The UNIONS are real relics from the 1970s.
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#62352
Re:Why arent the UNIONS blaming GORDON BROWN for the cuts ? 13 Years, 7 Months ago  
But BR it is human nature - cut the cash of others but don't touch us.

Democracy simply doesn't work.
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#62354
Jim

Re:Why arent the UNIONS blaming GORDON BROWN for the cuts ? 13 Years, 7 Months ago  
Thanks BR, you write:

"What is the alternative to cuts ? There does not seem to be any."

Have you considered?:

Deficit Crisis: Let's Really Be In It Together

A one-off tax of the rich has strong public support and would solve the UK's economic crisis at a stroke

Greg Philo
guardian.co.uk Sunday 15 August 2010

How can the sixth richest nation in the world be contemplating cuts in school meals services and regressive forms of taxation? In the political and media commentaries on the national crisis and the need for cuts, there has been very little discussion on how much wealth there is and why "we" as a nation are apparently so poor. Actually the economy keeps growing, and we are becoming richer than we were before the financial crisis.

The total personal wealth in the UK is £9,000bn, a sum that dwarfs the national debt. It is mostly concentrated at the top, so the richest 10% own £4,000bn, with an average per household of £4m. The bottom half of our society own just 9%. The wealthiest hold the bulk of their money in property or pensions, and some in financial assets and objects such antiques and paintings.

A one-off tax of just 20% on the wealth of this group would pay the national debt and dramatically reduce the deficit, since interest payments on the debt are a large part of government spending. So that is what should be done. This tax of 20%, graduated so the very richest paid the most, would raise £800bn. A major positive for this scheme is that the tax would not have to be immediately paid. The richest 10% have only to assume liability for their small part of the debt. They can pay a low rate of interest on it and if they wish make it a charge on their property when they die. It would be akin to a student loan for the rich.

The tax would be extremely popular. We commissioned a YouGov poll of over 2,000 people to test attitudes. There was very strong support, with 74% of the population approving (44% strongly approving). Only 10% did not approve, and agreement was spread right through social groups, with those of the highest income being slightly more supportive than the lower. The strongest support came from those over the age of 55, with 77% in favour (47% strongly). This is an extraordinary result given that there has been no public discussion of this proposal and that the very negative consequences of the alternatives are only just beginning to emerge.

There are strong economic arguments for this tax. A key problem for the British economy is that much of the nation's resources have been directed into inflated property values, which is where many of the bonuses ended up. This is in effect dead money but the tax would have the effect of re-circulating it as government spending, which could stimulate growth. The deficit would thus be further reduced as the unemployment resulting from the proposed cuts would be avoided - thus no increase in unemployment pay and no loss in tax revenue from the unemployed. This proposal offers a real alternative, to move debt off the government's books, using money that is largely trapped in the housing market, from people who will not miss it.

There will be arguments against it. It will be asked whether such a tax can be collected, but it is easier in some ways than income tax. The rich tend to minimise their declared income, but wealth is more publicly displayed, whether it is multiple properties or million-pound rings from Graff. Will they take their money somewhere else? It seems unlikely that the top 6 million people will up sticks to live in Belize. The current rhetoric of crisis, national interest and "everyone must share the pain" will contribute to demands for strict enforcement. If people have substantial assets, want to live here and to be British, then they will have to pay their bit. The public will have little time for non-doms, exiles or what will be seen as unacceptable attempts at avoidance. It is economic war, as Vince Cable says, but this is a move away from using the poor as cannon fodder.

At present David Cameron is arguing for policies that may radically reduce growth, put up unemployment and affect the bottom 6 million people hardest - those who literally have no wealth at all. He is doing this when the Conservatives received just 3% more votes in this year's election than they did in 2005. There is no popular mandate for what is being proposed, certainly not from those who voted Liberal Democrat. The consequence of what they are doing is likely to be serious social unrest. The British people are not passive and it is a myth that they will accept policies that they see as profoundly unfair. The new Tories might look back and remember what happened to the poll tax.

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/au...-crisis-tax-the-rich

Best Wishes,
Jim
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#62358
Angel

Re:Why arent the UNIONS blaming GORDON BROWN for the cuts ? 13 Years, 7 Months ago  
Initially happy with Osbourne and co making cuts. But Isn't it all happening too fast? Make cuts yes, but only if it's more gradual, lessening the scare mongering in the media and giving us some stability. People are scared to spend money!
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#62367
BR

Re:Why arent the UNIONS blaming GORDON BROWN for the cuts ? 13 Years, 7 Months ago  
Angel no cuts have been announced yet ? So how can you say it is happening too fast ?

The "rumours" of cuts are coming from the BBC - they are allowing the NEW LABOUR spin doctors and Unions to announce cuts which the co-alition have not yet agreed to.

The Police have not seen any cuts yet from central government - neither the Civil Service.

The BBC are announcing it as if it is a done deal. No benefits have been cut etc

This whole thing is a media scare.
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#62392
In The Know

Re:Why arent the UNIONS blaming GORDON BROWN for the cuts ? 13 Years, 7 Months ago  
Angel wrote:
Initially happy with Osbourne and co making cuts. But Isn't it all happening too fast?

The cuts - which will start in April 2011 - are spread over four years.
So, 25% cut over 4 years is about 6% a year - hardly the end of the world is it ?

One of the problems is that as the cuts will not be announced till Oct 22nd, we have weeks left to speculate (and for Labour to LIE) about what will actually be in the cuts !

Meanwhile ... the police are "stoking up" the "there will be riots in the streets" mantra (in order to protect themselves from cuts ?)
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#62393
In The Know

Re:Why arent the UNIONS blaming GORDON BROWN for the cuts ? 13 Years, 7 Months ago  
Jim wrote:

"What is the alternative to cuts ? There does not seem to be any."

Have you considered?:
Deficit Crisis: Let's Really Be In It Together


Jim

The problem with making someone else pay for the "cuts" is that those who continually scrounge off society will be "left off the hook" yet again - and within a short space time we'll be having the very same problem all over again.

If you have a problem the thing to do is deal with the problem itself - not make someone else "temporarily" cover it up.

Why should the successful pay for those who won't get off their backsides ?

The whole "benefit / pension" culture needs a complete rethink (as IDS says). Years ago, when there were 1000's working and paying into the system it could be supported (and in any event pensioners didn;t tend to live very long once retired anyway). So ... reasonable amounts paid in - and very little paid out.

We now have a declining workforce supporting people who have never worked in their lives, and those that have will probably live for 20, 25, 30 years on pensions when they retire.

WHO is going to pay for it ?

Do you remember (the late 60's I think) when Labour drove virtually all the rich out of the country (taking their money with them)?

Kill the scroungers - not the goose !
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#62394
In The Know

Re:Why arent the UNIONS blaming GORDON BROWN for the cuts ? 13 Years, 7 Months ago  
I LOVE IT !

The trade unions types are threating all-out strikes against the cuts !

So, instead of losing 3, 4 maybe 5% of their wages, they will lose 100% because if they strike we will not have to pay them at all !

Thick - or what ?

PS - There was a time when people had actually heard of the TUC leader (and knew who he was) - not any more.
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#62395
Re:Why arent the UNIONS blaming GORDON BROWN for the cuts ? 13 Years, 7 Months ago  
The middle 60s ITK - I paid 95% tax on my Everyone's Gone To The Moon royalties - for the simple mathematically minded, that's 95 pence in every pound. So I ended up with 5p for every pound I earned. Not good. I've never voted Labour as a direct result.
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#62398
BR

Re:Why arent the UNIONS blaming GORDON BROWN for the cuts ? 13 Years, 7 Months ago  
The Police are dominating the debate. Since when has the POLICE FORCE dictated Government Policy ?

We are in a POLICE STATE where the media cover the POLICE POLITICAL VIEW. How can they take such a political position ?

Surely it is illegal for the POLICE to enter PARTY POLITICS and back the New Labour Party >?

They should stay out of POLITICS and learn that they are there to SERVE the public - not try and dictate the Political Agenda.

Their threat of RIOTS on the streets is quite simply a scandalous position for them to take. Sounds like their TERROR warnings ( which never happened ) and so on.

Cut the POLICE and JUSTICE SYSTEM and protect education and nhs and the poor and OAPS.

That is what the PEOPLE want - and the POLICE need to like it and lump it. PEOPLE also do not want massive tax rises - though the BANKS should be hammered with a profits tax.
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#62402
In The Know

Re:Why arent the UNIONS blaming GORDON BROWN for the cuts ? 13 Years, 7 Months ago  
JK2006 wrote:
The middle 60s ITK - I paid 95% tax on my Everyone's Gone To The Moon royalties - for the simple mathematically minded, that's 95 pence in every pound. So I ended up with 5p for every pound I earned. Not good. I've never voted Labour as a direct result.

Thanks, JK. Like I said ... if you tax people too much they will simply leave and take their money with them (as did Tom Jones and loads of others). They you end up with no tax whatsoever !

I assume, JK, that you were still at Uni - so leaving the UK (at that time) was not an option ?
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#62403
Re:Why arent the UNIONS blaming GORDON BROWN for the cuts ? 13 Years, 7 Months ago  
Indeed I was ITK but my decision was based on the fact that I decided to stay and pay - and I've never regretted it; we tried to change the system; got Wilson voted out and Heath in; then Thatcher; tax got less; I've done OK - not got the millions I should have had if I'd not been ripped off (Bay City Rollers; 10cc; Rocky Horror) but I'm not starving and I'm very, very happy. Just had a HUGE bill for my long holidays paid for by a large royalties cheque.
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#62437
In The Know

Re:Why arent the UNIONS blaming GORDON BROWN for the cuts ? 13 Years, 7 Months ago  
JK2006 wrote:
I'm very, very happy.

Thats worth more than anything else.
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#62439
BR

Re:Why arent the UNIONS blaming GORDON BROWN for the cuts ? 13 Years, 7 Months ago  
Happiness = Priceless and non taxable !
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
Go to topPost New TopicPost Reply