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Why the CUTS could fail........
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TOPIC: Why the CUTS could fail........
#63990
BR

Why the CUTS could fail........ 13 Years, 6 Months ago  
A good attempt by George Osborne but his figures RELY on one thing that not one newspaper is talking about.....GROWTH of GDP.

See this table here on which the cuts are based :

Public spending: 2010-16

2010-11 £637.3bn (47.3% GDP)

2011-12 £651.1bn (45.5% GDP)

2012-13 £664.5bn (43.9% GDP)

2013-14 £678.6bn (42.2% GDP)

2014-15 £692.7bn (40.9% GDP)

2015-16 £711.4bn (39.8% GDP)

Source: Public Sector Finances Databank

As you all know I used to work for the GOVERNMENT in finance during the last recession in the early 1990s.

The TABLE above shows that GDP is going to grow EVERY year between now and 2016. That means we have no NO GROWTH years and no recessions - no wars - no major supply or demand problems. It basically relies on modest growth each year to reduce the Public Spending of GDP.

All well and Dandy....but why no mention of what would happen if growth stalls ( and this year it seems it is already stalling ) ? Osborne has not actually cut PUBLIC SPENDING at all - it is still going up. What he has done is cut it in relation to GDP in percentage terms.

The whole CUTS package would be de-railed OVERNIGHT if there was another 9.11 for instance or major war broke out in the Middle East or Korea or if a big natural disaster hit one of our main export markets. Or just simply demand does not pick up over the next 5 years - as happened in the 1930s/

Osborne relies on the PRIVATE sector to create this growth ( because 500K are out of work over next 4 years in the public sector ) and to do that they need investment - which could come - but perhaps the banks will not start lending as quickly as he wants thus stifling growth for at least 2 to 3 years.

The scenario I see is that OSBORNE may need to CUT AGAIN in 12 month or 24 months time if growth does not happen because otherwise the Public Spending will rise as percentage of GDP and threaten to bankrupt the UK.

So all the back slapping and champagne should be put on ice until this time next year. Only then will we see whether he has got it right. Even then there are too many unknowns about 2010 -2016 to know that this growth will certainly continue...so he is being optimistic ( not too much though which I respect )

So fingers crossed then........
 
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#64003
veritas

Re:Why the CUTS could fail........ 13 Years, 6 Months ago  
very accurate BR.

I still say-whatever your political beliefs-that these huge cuts will be quietly scaled back for no other reason than the chaos they would cause is greater then the benefit.
 
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#64029
Jim

Re:Why the CUTS could fail........ 13 Years, 6 Months ago  
Thanks BR,

That was a very knowledgeable post, especially for someone who appears to believe in space aliens. You seem surprising well-informed about economics, if I may say.

I think you've really hit the nail on the head there, especially with the line: "Or just simply demand does not pick up over the next 5 years - as happened in the 1930s".

Why should demand pick up? With public spending down and unemployment up, aggregate demand seems almost certain to fall, unless I'm missing something. And a rise in unemployment will cost the state in benefit payments and therefore tend to cause public spending to rise.

I'm by no means convinced there's a great future in this.
We could be spiralling into disaster.

Does anyone have any predictions for the unemployment rate, six months, a year, or five years from now?

Best Wishes,
Jim
 
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#64044
In The Know

Re:Why the CUTS could fail........ 13 Years, 6 Months ago  
Jim wrote:
Why should demand pick up? With public spending down and unemployment up, aggregate demand seems almost certain to fall, unless I'm missing something. And a rise in unemployment will cost the state in benefit payments and therefore tend to cause public spending to rise.

I do tend to (partly) agree, Jim

Since we don't make anything any more, there is no "manufacturing" to grow.

Thanks to Gormless Gordon putting all our eggs in the (crook-ridden) City of London, and failing to regulate it properly, virtually all manufacturing has transferred overseas. Of course we are partly to blame - we want the cheapest goods - and don't really care where they come from (or care how, and by whom, they were made).

The Unions are really quite loony - they are completely unsure of where they actually stand ! They know that its unlikely that we can ever recover from this situation (because you can't turn the clock back) and we have priced ourselves out of the manufacturing process.

Although I'm unsure whether growth will follow ... I am sure that the cuts were the right thing to do.

Those who say "cut more slowly" fail in their economics ... if we cut more slowly we will still have enormous debt interest to pay (currently 44 Billion a year - rises to 70 Billion a year by 2014). With slower cuts, it's likely that we would have to "cut further" just to pay the interest and we will still be left with the debt !!!

Whether growth comes or not ... we will be in a better position with NO debt, and NO interest - and then we can look at putting money into just causes.

Without these cuts (now) we will just continue the spiralling interest / debt repayments and will never see any benefit.

We've had our cake .... now we must pay for it.
 
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#64048
veritas

Re:Why the CUTS could fail........ 13 Years, 6 Months ago  
Jim wrote:
Does anyone have any predictions for the unemployment rate, six months, a year, or five years from now?

Best Wishes,
Jim


Yes. There will be more and more unemployment in the UK and in every industrialised country.

Those who can see that have their heads in the sand.

Technology alone is one reason. You cannot produce a computer that does the work that was once done in a business by at the very least, 20 human beings and not have millions of jobs vanish.

What you have to do is create jobs and private enterprise today does not create jobs-it's not within their interest.

That is the great challenge for governments today which they will not address because most of them live in the past.

And if you take away the spending power of all those people who are out of work, then the crisis will spiral out of control. Crime will surge-petty crime as people try to survive from day to day. All the moralising in the world about "scroungers" etc is tosh. You cannot control human behaviour.

which is why-as I repeat myself over again-in 12 months time you will congratulate me because I am proved right that all the threatened cutbacks will be quietly shelved.
 
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#64095
Jim

Re:Why the CUTS could fail........ 13 Years, 6 Months ago  
This is an interesting article, not least because it comes from a mainstream US economist, commenting on our country from outside. He seems to share BR's pessimism but reaches different conclusions.

NYTimes: British Fashion Victims
by Paul Krugman
October 21, 2010

In the spring of 2010, fiscal austerity became fashionable. I use the term advisedly: the sudden consensus among Very Serious People that everyone must balance budgets now now now wasn’t based on any kind of careful analysis. It was more like a fad, something everyone professed to believe because that was what the in-crowd was saying.

And it’s a fad that has been fading lately, as evidence has accumulated that the lessons of the past remain relevant, that trying to balance budgets in the face of high unemployment and falling inflation is still a really bad idea. Most notably, the confidence fairy has been exposed as a myth. There have been widespread claims that deficit-cutting actually reduces unemployment because it reassures consumers and businesses; but multiple studies of historical record, including one by the International Monetary Fund, have shown that this claim has no basis in reality.

No widespread fad ever passes, however, without leaving some fashion victims in its wake. In this case, the victims are the people of Britain, who have the misfortune to be ruled by a government that took office at the height of the austerity fad and won’t admit that it was wrong.

Britain, like America, is suffering from the aftermath of a housing and debt bubble. Its problems are compounded by London’s role as an international financial center: Britain came to rely too much on profits from wheeling and dealing to drive its economy — and on financial-industry tax payments to pay for government programs.

Over-reliance on the financial industry largely explains why Britain, which came into the crisis with relatively low public debt, has seen its budget deficit soar to 11 percent of G.D.P. — slightly worse than the U.S. deficit. And there’s no question that Britain will eventually need to balance its books with spending cuts and tax increases.

The operative word here should, however, be “eventually.” Fiscal austerity will depress the economy further unless it can be offset by a fall in interest rates. Right now, interest rates in Britain, as in America, are already very low, with little room to fall further. The sensible thing, then, is to devise a plan for putting the nation’s fiscal house in order, while waiting until a solid economic recovery is under way before wielding the ax.

But trendy fashion, almost by definition, isn’t sensible — and the British government seems determined to ignore the lessons of history.

Both the new British budget announced on Wednesday and the rhetoric that accompanied the announcement might have come straight from the desk of Andrew Mellon, the Treasury secretary who told President Herbert Hoover to fight the Depression by liquidating the farmers, liquidating the workers, and driving down wages. Or if you prefer more British precedents, it echoes the Snowden budget of 1931, which tried to restore confidence but ended up deepening the economic crisis.

The British government’s plan is bold, say the pundits — and so it is. But it boldly goes in exactly the wrong direction. It would cut government employment by 490,000 workers — the equivalent of almost three million layoffs in the United States — at a time when the private sector is in no position to provide alternative employment. It would slash spending at a time when private demand isn’t at all ready to take up the slack.

Why is the British government doing this? The real reason has a lot to do with ideology: the Tories are using the deficit as an excuse to downsize the welfare state. But the official rationale is that there is no alternative.

Indeed, there has been a noticeable change in the rhetoric of the government of Prime Minister David Cameron over the past few weeks — a shift from hope to fear. In his speech announcing the budget plan, George Osborne, the chancellor of the Exchequer, seemed to have given up on the confidence fairy — that is, on claims that the plan would have positive effects on employment and growth.

Instead, it was all about the apocalypse looming if Britain failed to go down this route. Never mind that British debt as a percentage of national income is actually below its historical average; never mind that British interest rates stayed low even as the nation’s budget deficit soared, reflecting the belief of investors that the country can and will get its finances under control. Britain, declared Mr. Osborne, was on the “brink of bankruptcy.”

What happens now? Maybe Britain will get lucky, and something will come along to rescue the economy. But the best guess is that Britain in 2011 will look like Britain in 1931, or the United States in 1937, or Japan in 1997. That is, premature fiscal austerity will lead to a renewed economic slump. As always, those who refuse to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

www.nytimes.com/2010/10/22/opinion/22kru..._r=2&ref=opinion
 
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#64103
In The Know

Re:Why the CUTS could fail........ 13 Years, 6 Months ago  
Surely, Jim - this is just one man opinion ?

As for the IMF quote, isn't is a fact that they BACK this current plan, and that without it our country's credit rating would be downgraded (meaning that our outstanding deficit will attract a higher rate of interest) ?

Isn't it also a fact that the USA's "aternative" - massive spending plans, and tax vbreaks for all - failed to stimulate the economy and just wasted even more money ?
 
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