david wrote:
ITK, I agree with pretty much everything you say on this thread.

However, do I detect a whiff of inconsistency in your postings....? if this had been a British national would you not be calling them a scrounger?

I applaud your sentiments on this thread, but your attitude to people in vulnerable positions (such as myself) has been less than sympathetic in the past (and that's putting it mildly).

However, bravo for your comments here.

David

I can see where you are coming from - but see no inconsistency.

I maintain that those that can work, should work - and the system is there for those in desperate need (such as those homeless in -10C at Christmas !)

Anon wrote:
Never heard of homeless shelters? there is always an alternative to stealing and entering a persons home. You appear to think it an acceptable practice where there is hardship. Fortunately, common sense prevails in this case or do you think the law is wrong?

If there had been a homeless shelter he may have used it - thought of that ????

Also, if a homeless shelter had been available he would be able to use it for bail - thus avoiding prison !

Did you actually read the report ?

Is your real name SCROOGE ?

Not one of you has offered ANY sympathy (too keen trying to keep your grubby little hands on whats yours !) - and in the process this man is going to jail, which will cost us all many many many times more than if we had offered a few pounds at the time.

In The Know wrote:
Anon wrote:
Never heard of homeless shelters? there is always an alternative to stealing and entering a persons home. You appear to think it an acceptable practice where there is hardship. Fortunately, common sense prevails in this case or do you think the law is wrong?

If there had been a homeless shelter he may have used it - thought of that ????

Also, if a homeless shelter had been available he would be able to use it for bail - thus avoiding prison !

Did you actually read the report ?

Is your real name SCROOGE ?

Not one of you has offered ANY sympathy (too keen trying to keep your grubby little hands on whats yours !) - and in the process this man is going to jail, which will cost us all many many many times more than if we had offered a few pounds at the time.

He was imprisoned for THEFT, not for entering someones home unlawfully so even if he had found legal shelter, he would still have been arrested and imprisoned for THEFT.The facts are clearly of no interest to you. Certainly, if I saw a person in genuine need i would consider offering them shelter. I would like it to be my idea though and I would NEVER suggest as you have that hardship is an acceptable reason for stealing a persons keys and unlawfully entering and using their home.
By the way, yes I do want to 'keep my grubby hands'on my hard earned and the law (which you clearly resent) seeks to punish those that believe otherwise and act in harmony with those beliefs. They are called thieves. That is not to say that I have not helped the needy in the past which I have. I prefer it to be my choice and so do most right minded persons. If you want to open your house to all, go ahead but you should not imply that those that favour security for their families are somehow morally lacking or impose your values on others.
I think you are a demagogue. Whipping up emotion, ignoring the facts and ignoring pertinent questions which I will ask again....
1)Since you concede that the police showed sympathy with the mans homelessness (but not theft). What is your gripe with the police? Do you think hardship exempts persons from theft laws?
2) Would you object if a person in hardship stole your credit card but did not use it?
3) Do you accept that the man will be warm, fed and sheltered in jail and if so, is this not a better place for him, rather than the (apparent) mortal danger he faced?

In The Know wrote:
Anon wrote:
Never heard of homeless shelters? there is always an alternative to stealing and entering a persons home. You appear to think it an acceptable practice where there is hardship. Fortunately, common sense prevails in this case or do you think the law is wrong?

If there had been a homeless shelter he may have used it - thought of that ????

Also, if a homeless shelter had been available he would be able to use it for bail - thus avoiding prison !


It escapes your notice that homeless shelters cannot be used as bail addresses. Best way to avoid prison is not to steal and, however, were I homeless and freezing, i would probably welcome the food, clothing,warmth and shelter that prison provides.

anon wrote:
I would NEVER suggest as you have that hardship is an acceptable reason for stealing a persons keys and unlawfully entering and using their home.

WHERE did I say that ?

You are making this up as you go along !

In The Know wrote:
anon wrote:
I would NEVER suggest as you have that hardship is an acceptable reason for stealing a persons keys and unlawfully entering and using their home.

WHERE did I say that ?

You are making this up as you go along !

Your shock at the imprisonment of the man for the theft and condemnation of those in favour of the imprisonment is sufficient to conclude that you condone the mans actions. You certainly disapprove of something. Please tell us what you disapprove of if not what I have cited? What should we do with strangers that steal people house keys and enter their homes unlawfully, a serious crime and not something any homeowner ot tenant would wish to experience.
Ps. I see that you have not answered the questions. That is your right but it undermines your position since the questions are pertinent.

The Bible is quite clear that we should offer our homes to the homeless if they need shelter and even give them our clothes. If we do that then we will get our reward in heaven. I am sure of that - caring for others costs nothing.

This man needed sorting out - not condemnation and a prison cell ( at taxpayers expense ) he should have been taken by the people and introduced to a homeless project - BUT should have beeen told in no uncertain terms that it was unacceptable for him to break into someone's house like that.

Everyone deserves a chance. If he was a criminal then they would have arrived home to find their flat trashed and everything stolen - this man had NOTHING yet he did not trash the flat and take everything......that says it all to me.

Property is a major problem for us all - we are brainwashed into thinking our possessions define us - but they mean nothing. One thing a prison cell does - or a monastic cell - is to make it clear that possessions mean nothing....it is WHO WE ARE and WHAT WE DO that matters ( and not just our intellectual response to things ).

Maybe this story will encourage us all to do more for the homeless in the future......they really do need our help. Having no roof over your head is probably the worst thing that can heppen to anyone.

Down with this sort of thing.

Best Wishes,
Jim

BR wrote:
The Bible is quite clear that we should offer our homes to the homeless if they need shelter and even give them our clothes. If we do that then we will get our reward in heaven. I am sure of that - caring for others costs nothing.

This man needed sorting out - not condemnation and a prison cell ( at taxpayers expense ) he should have been taken by the people and introduced to a homeless project - BUT should have beeen told in no uncertain terms that it was unacceptable for him to break into someone's house like that.

Everyone deserves a chance. If he was a criminal then they would have arrived home to find their flat trashed and everything stolen - this man had NOTHING yet he did not trash the flat and take everything......that says it all to me.

Property is a major problem for us all - we are brainwashed into thinking our possessions define us - but they mean nothing. One thing a prison cell does - or a monastic cell - is to make it clear that possessions mean nothing....it is WHO WE ARE and WHAT WE DO that matters ( and not just our intellectual response to things ).

Maybe this story will encourage us all to do more for the homeless in the future......they really do need our help. Having no roof over your head is probably the worst thing that can heppen to anyone.

Another person twisting the scriptures and quoting out of context. Please state which passage shows that people may steal a persons keys then enter that persons home without permission? What kind of idiot put their family at risk in such a way. Since you are invoking the bible, one of the ten commandments is "you must not steal".
He was a criminal on two counts but was only prosecuted for the key theft , not the criminal trespass. If a person steals your wallet but does not use the money or credit cards, do you think they are not a criminal?
Regarding property being a problem. Property and money are security (to me at least)and this story would only serve to remind me that I must secure my property before going on holiday. Only a fool would not do so.
you say... Having no roof over your head is probably the worst thing that can happen to anyone....
The perpetrator clearly thinks otherwise!

BR wrote:
The Bible is quite clear that we should offer our homes to the homeless if they need shelter and even give them our clothes. If we do that then we will get our reward in heaven. I am sure of that - caring for others costs nothing.

This man needed sorting out - not condemnation and a prison cell ( at taxpayers expense ) he should have been taken by the people and introduced to a homeless project - BUT should have beeen told in no uncertain terms that it was unacceptable for him to break into someone's house like that.

Everyone deserves a chance. If he was a criminal then they would have arrived home to find their flat trashed and everything stolen - this man had NOTHING yet he did not trash the flat and take everything......that says it all to me.

Property is a major problem for us all - we are brainwashed into thinking our possessions define us - but they mean nothing. One thing a prison cell does - or a monastic cell - is to make it clear that possessions mean nothing....it is WHO WE ARE and WHAT WE DO that matters ( and not just our intellectual response to things ).

Maybe this story will encourage us all to do more for the homeless in the future......they really do need our help. Having no roof over your head is probably the worst thing that can heppen to anyone.

Very well said, BR.

See? He's not always as wacky as he's accused of being

anon wrote:
Please tell us what you disapprove of if not what I have cited?

The utter lack of care and consideration - esp at Christmas.

BR wrote:
If he was a criminal then they would have arrived home to find their flat trashed and everything stolen - this man had NOTHING yet he did not trash the flat and take everything......that says it all to me.

He actually cleaned-up the flat when he had finished with it, BR !

A measly few pounds - spent on more homeless shelters - could have avoided all this .... now we have to pay out thousands to keep him in prison (and at the end of it he will STILL be homeless and absolutely nothing will have been achieved).

In The Know wrote:
anon wrote:
Please tell us what you disapprove of if not what I have cited?

The utter lack of care and consideration - esp at Christmas.[Max field length is 35]
Subject:


I am disgusted at the lack of sympathy for the victim and I have already said i sympathize with the homeless mans plight, a fact you have overlooked, as I do with the plight of all homeless. You are implying that one is morally lacking if they wish to secure their keys and home against theft and intrusion or that one does not care.
Like so many liberal do gooders, the sympathy is always toward the perpetrator, never the victim.
You think his circumstances justify his actions, the law says not, thankfully. Can you imagine the fear and insecurity amongst families homeowners and tenants if the cold and homeless were exempt from the crimes of theft and unlawful entry?
In your opening post, you said "Shocking story - Squatter - who took nothing - jailed for six month".
Since your shock is not due to the police actions whom you concede were sympathetic to his homelessness (but not the theft)what is is that shocks you and what punishment (if any) would you deem appropriate? I do not expect an answer to this question as you have avoided answering all other questions such as...
Would you object if a person in hardship stole your credit card but did not use it?
Do you accept that the man will be warm, fed and sheltered in jail and if so, is this not a better place for him, rather than the (apparent) mortal danger he faced?

BR wrote:
The Bible is quite clear that we should offer our homes to the homeless if they need shelter and even give them our clothes. If we do that then we will get our reward in heaven. I am sure of that - caring for others costs nothing.




Still waiting for you to show where in the bible it says that.
Meanwhile, Exodus 22:2
"If a thief is caught in the act of breaking into a house and is struck and killed in the process, the person who killed the thief is not guilty of murder.

anon, it's quotes like that which make me really hate a lot of the Bible.