Did I miss an electoral in Libya? How can the rebels be appointed as the new democratic leaders without any democratic process?

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-ne...rom-uk-16028725.html

Good for you Pumpkinhead; it staggers and frightens me that Obama, Hague et al can behave so blatantly unfairly and think - correctly - that most people neither notice nor care.
There are many Libyans who want Gadaffi. They may be wrong but they deserve to be heard.

JK2006 wrote:
They may be wrong but they deserve to be heard.

... and they WILL be heard - in due course.

Firstly the country needs to be stabilised (just as in Egypt, where elections will take place in September).
Gaddafi was never going to allow free elections, eas he ?

The thing is that we will probably never know if the people of Libya wanted free elections. That has been decided by other powers. Last week, Germany agreed to allow more power to be handed over to the rebels in exchange for 15% of Libyan oil.

It has little to do with democracy.

This conflict is even more clumsily handled than Iraq - don't they ever learn? They don't really know whether they are going to be any less thuggish than Gaddafi's regieme
Cost so far - £500million encounting.....

Pumpkinhead wrote:
The thing is that we will probably never know if the people of Libya wanted free elections. That has been decided by other powers. Last week, Germany agreed to allow more power to be handed over to the rebels in exchange for 15% of Libyan oil.

It has little to do with democracy.

Sorry pumpkinhead - thats absolute nonsense !

The people clearly want rid of Gaddafi - which is why they are supporting the insurgency (which now controls over 80% of the country).

NO insurgency can survive without the support of the people (have you never read "Guerilla Warfare" by Che Guevara?). You need the support of the majority to handle logistics (like hiding / moving tons on ammo) and support (like feeding thousands of rebels) - these things simply cannot happen unless the majorty of people support it (and are prepared to cover it up).

You speak as if this "insurgency" was a handful of people who have (miraculously?) managed to almost overthrow one of the most secret and repressive (did I mention highly equipped?) armies in the world.

The rebels (who are de facto the new Government - and are recognised as such by more than 30 countries now) have controlled most of the oil for months (and signed a deal with Qatar to export it for them months ago).

This delusional view of Libya seems to forget that it was an uprising (by the people) which brought about this crisis - it was NOT started by the UK, EU, USA or anyone else.

The latest Libyan incidents illustrate how the situation is a mess and the West should never have gotten involved; it is, quite simply, an internal conflict; without Western interference it would have been crushed within minutes by Gaddafi who, like him or not, is the leader of the country.

It's as though the IRA found themselves supported years ago by the entire West in an attempt to overthrow the UK government by bombing and killing.

Now we are seeing the various rival elements amongst the rebels warring against each other (as Gaddafi warned they would).

Sheer insanity on our level and the consequences will be enormous; not just in Libya and North Africa but right across Europe and here in the UK.

This is a few days old but it shows the type of story which is not being told by the mainstream western media.

rt.com/news/libya-nato-rebels-strikes/

Chinese and Japanese TV also show different angles to what we normally see in the UK.

JK2006 wrote:
It's as though the IRA found themselves supported years ago by the entire West in an attempt to overthrow the UK government by bombing and killing.

JK doesn't seem to realise that the IRA won !!! (and had tons of support from overseas).

Pumpkinhead wrote:
Chinese and Japanese TV also show different angles to what we normally see in the UK.

Well the Chinese WOULD promote democracy, wouldn't they? LOL !

In The Know wrote:
Pumpkinhead wrote:
Chinese and Japanese TV also show different angles to what we normally see in the UK.

Well the Chinese WOULD promote democracy, wouldn't they? LOL !

China is a fascinating country and even it's most high profile 'democracy' blogger who escapes prosecution admits that attempting to transfer China from it's current leadership set-up to free elections is almost a task beyond human comprehension and he maybe right.

I quite like their idea of re-education camps and can think of a few recalcitrants who need a visit.

The insurgency has only survived due to immense support from NATO countries.It would die tomorrow without it.

When the NATO spokesperson defends bombing State TV (and killing innocent civilian technicians) because "supporters of the Gaddafi regime" are using it to criticize opposition, doesn't it strike anyone as odd that - if we admit that one side has supporters - NATO should not be targeting that faction over another?

I thought the strange, barmy, flawed logic (as expressed on here by certain posters) that Gaddafi has no real supporters but only those paid to express lip service could be seen as transparently loony by anybody with a brain.

I'm not a Gaddafi fan and would probably back the opposition if I lived in Libya but it is completely beyond my understanding how we outsiders can back one side against the other. Oh, of course, OIL.

Mugabe's opponents had better find oil quick if they want us to murder a few Zimbabweans.

DebbieKean wrote:
The insurgency has only survived due to immense support from NATO countries.It would die tomorrow without it.

Nonsense !

All freedom fighters eventually win

A regime cannot crush an entire country - at the point where the majority are prepared to fight for freedom the regime loses.

The Viet Cong WON in Vietnam
The IRA WON in Ireland
The Sandinista WON in S America
The ANC WON in South Africa

... you getting the picture now ?

JK2006 wrote:
Mugabe's opponents had better find oil quick if they want us to murder a few Zimbabweans.

Mugabe's supporters already murder Zimbabeans !

I don't recall there being any oil in Kosovo ?

Or in Uganda (when we helped oust Idi Amin)

... and Hitler's oil must have been the biggest Nazi state secret of all !

veritas wrote:
I quite like their idea of re-education camps and can think of a few recalcitrants who need a visit.

I'm surprised that its not loony Labour Party policy, veritas !

All those card-carrying union members - all wearing the same uniform and singing the same mantra !