Blackit wrote:
I'm afraid you're wasting your time ITK trying to argue with these people and their secular faiths and heresies.

It's only when it becomes obvious that they personally will have their quality of life destroyed by the breakdown of personal responsibility and social cohesion that they might be willing to discuss solutions rationally without screaming a variety of -ists at you. We haven't quite reached that point so in the meantime they prefer to cling to their cultural Marxist white middle-class comfort faiths. It allows them to retain their white middle-class material privilages, keep the working class (including and especially the blacks) down, as well as giving themselves a sense of bogus moral superiority. I met many such people when I was at university. In fact 90% of the people at University were like this. You would get more profit out of debating with a crazed Islamic fundamentalist.

Of course, when the necessities of the real world finally allow them to abandon their cognitive delusions it will be far too late.

Blackit,you dug a big hole on another thread,ur just making a bigger fool of yourself here!

In The Know wrote:
veritas wrote:
odd..on one thread you say you are proud of social security and here you accuse every person receiving it as being a 'scrounger'.

Nothing "odd" at all (unless you are loony Labour, then I couldn;t understand you not understanding common sense !).

The social security system is enviable ... what is NOT enviable is the numbers who will take take take all they can get (depriving more deserving people).

Its a safety-net - NOT a lifestyle choice !!!!

I haven't registered !

you are still blaming those at the bottom of the heap for their situation.

Un-educated, no jobs (where are the jobs ?)..they really are caught in a cycle not of their own making.

They don't make government policy...(and you continue to talk as though there is actually a loony left !). There hasn't been a 'left' government in the UK or USA for decades.

Both countries are veering towards corporatism and that is the real worry..not a bunch of pathetic, ugly and mindless looters (who still in the end haven't caused as much damage to Britain as either political party)

I believe the USA is going to go bust in spectacular fashion...wages are dropping like crazy there..the middle class is becoming the working poor and they cannot or will not spend. When that happens..(the US sneezes..the world gets the flu)

That's when you and Pat will see real ugly riots.

Blackit wrote:
I'm afraid you're wasting your time ITK trying to argue with these people and their secular faiths and heresies.

It's only when it becomes obvious that they personally will have their quality of life destroyed by the breakdown of personal responsibility and social cohesion that they might be willing to discuss solutions rationally without screaming a variety of -ists at you.

I had noticed LOL !

Have you noticed also how all those "Gaddafi will never be beaten" / "you dont know Libya" types have all suddenly gone to ground ? Just as all those who supported Toady B-Liar and his invasion of Iraq vanished as soon as they realised that the outcome was anything but the blissful heaven that had been promised ?

What of course IS happening, is that they are now posting "of course I knew Gaddafi would be beaten - but the new government will be as bad or worse" !

Its called "shifting the goalposts", Blackit

veritas wrote:
you are still blaming those at the bottom of the heap for their situation.

Un-educated, no jobs (where are the jobs ?)..they really are caught in a cycle not of their own making.

What utter rubbish !

Its not up to US to "create" jobs - just so these uneducated morons can have some cash !
What happened to the £100,000 we spent on educating each and every one of them ?

After all that money why cant they fill in an application form ?
There ARE jobs - for those educated and qualified. We simply dont need to employ village idiots to act as pit-props anymore.

Re - Eviction. I see that loony Labour Council Wakefield (they haven't seen a Tory there for decades) is the latest to say anyone caught and convicted of rioting will be evicted !

Innocent Accused wrote:
Those of us who do travel the world could name quite a few countries with generous welfare systems.
Anyway today I visited Belgium and France,both of which have generous benefit systems,in fact most of western europe is more generous than us.Even today Eire pays out more than us on average for claimants.

There are plenty more examples,but the point has now been made.

No it hasn't !

You simply take one part of an equasion and ignore the other (a la veritas, and his "Oz is the best in the world" - but when we check its means tested and rather stringent)!

ALL of the countries you mention have HIGHER TAXES and I would bet also that they dont allow scroungers to live on the dole for decades as we do.

In The Know wrote:
Innocent Accused wrote:
Those of us who do travel the world could name quite a few countries with generous welfare systems.
Anyway today I visited Belgium and France,both of which have generous benefit systems,in fact most of western europe is more generous than us.Even today Eire pays out more than us on average for claimants.

There are plenty more examples,but the point has now been made.

No it hasn't !

You simply take one part of an equasion and ignore the other (a la veritas, and his "Oz is the best in the world" - but when we check its means tested and rather stringent)!

ALL of the countries you mention have HIGHER TAXES and I would bet also that they dont allow scroungers to live on the dole for decades as we do.

Real taxes are lower in both countries,but of course you won't learn that from the NOTW.

Now go find a few more 5 month old threads,then tell everyone how great u are
Good to know ur only m8 on here has made a complete fool of himself accusing another poster of using 2 names.Fools attract fools

In The Know wrote:
veritas wrote:
you are still blaming those at the bottom of the heap for their situation.

Un-educated, no jobs (where are the jobs ?)..they really are caught in a cycle not of their own making.

What utter rubbish !

Its not up to US to "create" jobs - just so these uneducated morons can have some cash !
What happened to the £100,000 we spent on educating each and every one of them ?

After all that money why cant they fill in an application form ?
There ARE jobs - for those educated and qualified. We simply dont need to employ village idiots to act as pit-props anymore.

Re - Eviction. I see that loony Labour Council Wakefield (they haven't seen a Tory there for decades) is the latest to say anyone caught and convicted of rioting will be evicted !

Both left and right-for different reasons- will support welfare .

If you remove the spending power (even of the illiterates) the economy will collapse.

Simple economics. get used to it.

That's why Henry Ford paid his workers 3 times the average wage..he knew they would spend it on Ford cars.

Innocent Accused wrote:
Real taxes are lower in both countries

Evidence ?
(Then I'll check it to make sure you are not doing a "veritas" ! LOL)

You CANT pay out MORE in benefits by taking in LESS TAX !
Its called economics .... oh ! You are talking about France, which is about to go bankrupt, so maybe you can (for a while).

In The Know wrote:
Innocent Accused wrote:
Real taxes are lower in both countries

Evidence ?
(Then I'll check it to make sure you are not doing a "veritas" ! LOL)

You CANT pay out MORE in benefits by taking in LESS TAX !
Its called economics .... oh ! You are talking about France, which is about to go bankrupt, so maybe you can (for a while).

Source wiki


2009 Rates for each part of the incomeEach unit of taxable income Rate
Below €5,875 0%
From €5,875 to €11,720 5.5%
From €11,720 to €26,030 - 14%
From €26,030 to €69,783 30%
Beyond €69,783 40%

Think we all know the UK rates,and of course France has considerably less indirect taxes on things like Booze,tobacco etc,oh and cheaper food prices,I know cause I shop in Carefour most weeks.

France bankrupt? Let's hope it doesn't take as long to happen as your Libya prediction...long time to await your next orgasm

You're right IA France has never in my memory had lower taxation than the UK, and I lived there for many years in 3 different periods.

I also don't see France going bankrupt any time soon. The times we are living are so uncertain that you can't be 100% sure of anything, but I don't see it coming.

On the subject of Carrefour, do you do your hop over the channel to do your shopping? If you're shopping at Carrefour in the UK then you're not paying French prices. They may be lower than other chains due to other factors such as the size of their stores etc, but here they pay UK wages, UK distribution costs (fuel etc), UK taxes and UK prices to wholesalers.... so they're not French prices. Apologies if I've misunderstood you

Tesco have a big presence in Hungary, but when I go to a Tesco store in Budapest I am definitely paying Hungarian prices (and shall be doing so in 2 weeks ).

david wrote:
You're right IA France has never in my memory had lower taxation than the UK, and I lived there for many years in 3 different periods.

Didn't even have to check !

Its pointless just producing a blank statistic (is this supposed to be France, Belgium, or where) - without the overall context.

If you still insist the overal cost of living in France is lower than the UK - tell me, where does the money come from to pay higher benefits (which incidentally I dont dispute) ?

They find their social spending via taxation.

That is why they have such excellent trains for example, while ours are creaking and hiking their fares to make profits for investors.

By the way I have never said that France has a lower cost of living than the UK.

The Paris Metro is way cheaper than the Tube tho.

Sorry my tax figures were for France.I go to Belgium on average once a week,on numerous occasions tax has been mentioned as being higher than UK,but I already proved my point,perhaps for once we could reverse rolls and ask ITK to produce some proof?

Carefour,often use the Calais one,but a few weeks ago used them all the way down France and into La Linea in Spain.
Also use the ones in Bucharest a lot,especially the bigger one in the Militari district,bit pricier than France as it's priced in Lei.Cora is perhaps better value.Not been to budapest since 2004,and then never got past British Home stores.
Used Tesco more recently in both Bangkok and Warsaw,both cheaper than their counterparts in Cameron's Rip off Britain.
Anyway nuff waffling,the GF is down from Burton,and we're taking a foot passenger trip to Calais tomorrow,and I promised to use my car there to drive her to Brugge.

OK here's my funny Carrefour story; I often shop in their Tunisia stores and asked someone for the Carrefour in Sousse; after half an hour I realised - it's also French for roundabout and all the roundabouts in Tunisia are named Carrefour This or That - I'd been directed to the nearest roundabout. I thought they looked at me strangely!

JK2006 wrote:
OK here's my funny Carrefour story; I often shop in their Tunisia stores and asked someone for the Carrefour in Sousse; after half an hour I realised - it's also French for roundabout and all the roundabouts in Tunisia are named Carrefour This or That - I'd been directed to the nearest roundabout. I thought they looked at me strangely!

Libya is also next door,perhaps you were planning a surprise attack?

david wrote:
They find their social spending via taxation.

That is why they have such excellent trains for example, while ours are creaking and hiking their fares to make profits for investors.

and that's one of the reasons I despised Blair so much as he continued Major's disastrous privatisation despite saying he wouldn't.

And don;t forget they are also subsidised (corporate welfare) as are most industries -even those who make enmormous profits.

Throw in the fact so many who base themselves in tax havens and avoid taxation on billions in profits.

Sadly ITK speaks in Daily Mail / Fox News type newspeak that has infiltrated the English language for 2 decades now...so that profit making corporations are called "job creators".

I've spent my life telling the In The Knows of the world that the corporate profit makers are not their friends.

My father was a merchant banker who told me from an early age that the system was a corrupt one designed to mug the ordinary punter and I've subsequently survived very nicely by living outside it.