Gaddafi lived in luxury ... a bit like all world leaders .. Obama, Sarkozy, Merkel, Cameron, - The media make me laugh .. sometimes .. meanwhile Libyans kill Libyans.

Pumpkinhead wrote:
meanwhile Libyans kill Libyans.

Do you mean "Foreign mercenaries (working for Gaddafi) kill Libyans" ?

Reports today make it quite clear that the remaining rabble are "black Africans" (some from Eritrea) rather than Libyans (which explains why Gaddafi's "elite" forces vanished !)

And yet Amnesty says that is rubbish - a rebel excuse to slaughter light or dark skinned migrants. Who do you believe?

In The Know wrote:
Pumpkinhead wrote:
meanwhile Libyans kill Libyans.

Do you mean "Foreign mercenaries (working for Gaddafi) kill Libyans" ?

Reports today make it quite clear that the remaining rabble are "black Africans" (some from Eritrea) rather than Libyans (which explains why Gaddafi's "elite" forces vanished !)

So the rebels had no outside help?

Innocent Accused wrote:


So the rebels had no outside help?

Not much. Well... not so you'd notice.

And it's scandalous that you have to fall back on a little thing like NATO air strikes, the enthusiastic selectivity of the BBC and the constant branding/rebranding/rebranding again {"Mad Dog", the West's new Best Friend in the War Against Terror", "Evil Oppressor of his own people" and - only yesterday - "He's got Weapons of Mass Destruction and he's not afraid to use them"}reality in order to make your point. Once upon a time Great Britain {well, England really, although that was only in terms of policy, the implementation - ie the bit that might involve being dead - was usually left up to the Welsh, the Irish and the Scots, all - of course - commanded by English officers} used to stamp around the world dictating who ruled what and replacing people whose regimes and ideals ran counter to Vicky's interests with regimes and ideals that did.

Isn't it nice that we now live in more enlightened times?

Innocent Accused wrote:
So the rebels had no outside help?

Of course they did (and rightly so) ... Gaddafi - the new Hitler - had been using mercenaries to terrorise and kill his own people. Its quite right that we re-dress the balance.

Thousands of lives have been saved - both now and in the future.

Pan Am 103 was not Gaddafi’s only act of terror: his intelligence service was behind the destruction of a TWA flight in 1974 and sponsored the Abu Nidal organization's acts of terrorism well into the 1980s — as well as supplying semtex to the IRA and thus prolonging the Northern Irish troubles for years, costing many many lives.

Only a simpleton would want Gaddafi to suvive any longer.

In The Know wrote:
Innocent Accused wrote:
So the rebels had no outside help?

Only a simpleton would want Gaddafi to suvive any longer.

Do u?

In The Know wrote:
Innocent Accused wrote:
So the rebels had no outside help?

Of course they did (and rightly so) ... Gaddafi - the new Hitler - had been using mercenaries to terrorise and kill his own people. Its quite right that we re-dress the balance.

Thousands of lives have been saved - both now and in the future.

Pan Am 103 was not Gaddafi’s only act of terror: his intelligence service was behind the destruction of a TWA flight in 1974 and sponsored the Abu Nidal organization's acts of terrorism well into the 1980s — as well as supplying semtex to the IRA and thus prolonging the Northern Irish troubles for years, costing many many lives.

Only a simpleton would want Gaddafi to suvive any longer.

There is a thing often mouthed by silly Hillary Clinton called 'selective justice'.Think we all know this is usual in places where the government use the justice system 'selectively' to deal only with those elements they consider threatening to their continued rule.

ITK has a large dosage of this,ignoring the millions who suffered in Iraq etc as a direct result of the British invasion there.By her/his/it's own argument we should topple ourselves and put those who supported this illegal act in the Hague.

Gadaffi was no doubt bad,but we have been 100 times worse.All our interfering has only made matters worse,only a fool would support a fool in copying failed interventions.

It's easy to spin things. In the UK we have a government which take a severe stand against people who riot (for example), to the extent that normal laws are abused to drive a point. Some rioter were labeled as enemies of the state.

In Iraq the enemies of Saddam Hussein called his enemies, enemies of the state, then after the war Bush and Blair called their enemies (and anybody who disagreed them) enemies of the state.

If NATO had not got involved then many lives might have been saved as all "experts" agree the rebellion would have been short lived. Now was have war and, as we see homes being destroyed and lives lost as people try to find Gaddafi, not for justice but because they have heard about the reward.

Chaos and death but little justice!

Pumpkinhead wrote:
Gaddafi lived in luxury ... a bit like all world leaders .. Obama, Sarkozy, Merkel, Cameron, - The media make me laugh .. sometimes .. meanwhile Libyans kill Libyans.

but such bad taste luxury..not unlike Saddam Hussein's.

However he had many beautiful outfits and gorgeous hats..very stylish..very GQ!

GeminiUK wrote:
ITK has a large dosage of this,ignoring the millions who suffered in Iraq etc as a direct result of the British invasion there.

Oh to be so uninformed ! LOL !!!

NO ONE was more anti the illegal invasion of Iraq than me !

There is a huge difference ... Iraq was an illegal invasion (and although Saddam was not a goody his people were not (at that time) being crushed by him.

Libya is totally different. The people rose up - all on their own - and we only went in as a direct result of a request from them.

PS - It was a Yanker invasion (we just tagged along so B-Liar looked good to the Yanks and he could earn zillions there when he got kicked out of office - by his own party!).

Pumpkinhead wrote:
If NATO had not got involved then many lives might have been saved as all "experts" agree the rebellion would have been short lived.

Highly debatable - the rebels were doing reasonable well (against an army !) before NATO went to their assistance.

Now was have war and, as we see homes being destroyed and lives lost as people try to find Gaddafi, not for justice but because they have heard about the reward.

... and we would STILL have Gaddafi !
... and he would be STILL terrorising the world.

Read this uk.reuters.com/article/2011/08/26/uk-lib...dUKTRE77P2VY20110826

I'm sorry ITK but just looking at the news coverage of the hospital in Tripoli is horrifying - yes, Gaddafi troops may well be responsible for much of the deaths but I bet the rebels have just as much blood on their hands and I'm certain thousands have died because a tiny uprising which would have been put down in days has escalated into a brutal civil war only because outsiders decided to interfere. Which regime will be better for the remaining Libyans history will tell and I suspect the answer is that the new rulers will be better in the short term than Gaddafi was but this revolution has been a disaster for thousands of innocent Libyans and we should never have encouraged or contributed to it.

In The Know wrote:
GeminiUK wrote:
ITK has a large dosage of this,ignoring the millions who suffered in Iraq etc as a direct result of the British invasion there.

Oh to be so uninformed ! LOL !!!

NO ONE was more anti the illegal invasion of Iraq than me !

There is a huge difference ... Iraq was an illegal invasion (and although Saddam was not a goody his people were not (at that time) being crushed by him.

Libya is totally different. The people rose up - all on their own - and we only went in as a direct result of a request from them.

PS - It was a Yanker invasion (we just tagged along so B-Liar looked good to the Yanks and he could earn zillions there when he got kicked out of office - by his own party!).

Actually Saddam gassed the kurds in the north,massacred the shittes in the south,then invaded and killed the kurds again in the mid 90s.
In comparison Gadaffi was an angel.
Seems you're very selective on which dictators you want removed,or more likely it depends if your silly friends in the coalition are leading the invasion...or not.
As for the legality,the UN voted to allow the protection of civilians,not regime overthrow,and this is why where we have real problems like Syria nothing will happen.
Yo should try visiting these countries,instead of sitting around reading the Sun,in fact I'd be embarrassed to agree with the kind of gutter press meejah crap you sprout

And it's not Libyans who have killed thousands of Libyans - it's us. Our tax monies; our weak and evil elected Government; our sick media. Looking at those poor corpses in the hospital in Tripoli and guessing there are thousands more who would be alive today were it not for David Cameron - and US who lazily elected him. This has nothing to do with Gaddafi and whether he's good or bad. It's us interfering with another country. Bullies.

and now we begin to hear about how western companies are bidding for the contracts to rebuild Libya. It all sounds so familiar.

Pumpkinhead wrote:
and now we begin to hear about how western companies are bidding for the contracts to rebuild Libya. It all sounds so familiar.

What a surprise - not.

They can bleat all they like about liberating an oppressed people- that was NOT the reason we intervened. It's so obvious it would be a farce if it weren't so tragic.

On another note, John Simpson was very clear on Radio 4's Today programme this morning that stories that Gadaffi has hired thousands of mercenaries from other African countries are very misleading, as the number of mercenaries is very small. He also said that the result of this propaganda was that you can see the fear on the face of anyone who is of sub-saharan appearance. A fear of being lynched in a fit of 'retribution' by the rebels. There are reports that this has already happened to some people.

JK2006 wrote:
And it's not Libyans who have killed thousands of Libyans - it's us.

... and are we also to blame for the 50,000 missing (probably dead) taken away in the middle of the night by Gaddafi's storm-troopers ?

Innocent Accused wrote:
Actually Saddam gassed the kurds in the north,massacred the shittes in the south,then invaded and killed the kurds again in the mid 90s.
In comparison Gadaffi was an angel.
Seems you're very selective on which dictators you want removed,or more likely it depends if your silly friends in the coalition are leading the invasion...or not.
As for the legality,the UN voted to allow the protection of civilians,not regime overthrow,and this is why where we have real problems like Syria nothing will happen.
Yo should try visiting these countries,instead of sitting around reading the Sun,in fact I'd be embarrassed to agree with the kind of gutter press meejah crap you sprout

Gaddafi an angel?
Is that why we see thousands celebrating (his demise) on the streets?
All of course except the 50,000 still "missing" and probably dead who were "taken away" in the middle of the night because they dared oppose his regime?

42 years of terror - not just in Libya but around the globe - ended.
GOOD.

Assad Next

JK2006 wrote:
I'm sorry ITK but just looking at the news coverage of the hospital in Tripoli is horrifying - yes, Gaddafi troops may well be responsible for much of the deaths but I bet the rebels have just as much blood on their hands and I'm certain thousands have died because a tiny uprising which would have been put down in days has escalated into a brutal civil war only because outsiders decided to interfere. Which regime will be better for the remaining Libyans history will tell and I suspect the answer is that the new rulers will be better in the short term than Gaddafi was but this revolution has been a disaster for thousands of innocent Libyans and we should never have encouraged or contributed to it.

The thousands on the streets all appear to think it was a good thing, JK.

I note also that all reports say the country hasn't descended into anarchy (as many on here had hoped).
I think the future (now) looks bright for Libya, and the Libyans people seem very happy with the outcome (and with our contribution - unlike in Iraq).