Yes I bet we all now hope for a peaceful and successful takeover. But I would also bet there are thousands killed by the "rebels" the media do not cover or reveal - the winners write history. And if we had not backed the opposition with force, the rebellion would have been quashed fast with hundreds - not thousands dead. Some may feel it was worth killing tens of thousands to protect the hundreds who would have undoubtably died if the status quo had remained. And that we should do the same in Syria. Then in Zimbabwe. And quite possibly in China and other countries in order to make them "democracies' (preferably Christian ones). Some of us disagree and still feel; we should never have got involved.

However, since we did - I'm not at all surprised that the vast majority who survived will praise the winners and say they wanted them all along. Wouldn't you? My personal opinion remains that almost every Libyan didn't care who the regime was - they just wanted to stop the killing.

from BBC News -

A ship carrying hundreds of prisoners, released from Libyan jails, has arrived in Benghazi from Tripoli.

In scenes of almost delirious joy, they were greeted and hugged by wives, husbands, brothers, sisters and friends, says the BBC's Jon Leyne who watched as the ship arrived in the rebel city.

Some had been captured by Col Gaddafi's forces during the last six months; others had been held for years.

They spoke of torture, beatings and starvation rations.

Rebel leaders have spoken of their concerns for tens of thousands of others - taken prisoner in the past few months - who are still missing.

The rebels say they fear their bodies could be unearthed in mass graves, or that the prisoners have been abandoned in secret, underground military bunkers.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14706543

No surprises there. Thank God those nice rebels haven't killed anyone or the BBC would be telling us about them too, wouldn't it.

JK2006 wrote:
No surprises there. Thank God those nice rebels haven't killed anyone or the BBC would be telling us about them too, wouldn't it.

As the most respected news organisation in the world - by far - I suspect it would.

Very good article on Reuters which looks at how brittle these dictators regimes can be -

“When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground.” That’s a line from “Game of Thrones,” the new HBO television series that is conquering American popular culture.

But it could just as easily refer to the no-holds-barred battles we are watching in Libya and Syria. What is hardest to grasp is how these regimes are both strong and brittle. Their rulers are ruthless dictators prepared to do whatever it takes to stay in power — and for decades that can work. Until, suddenly, it does not.

.....

That is the good news. The bad news is that the brittleness of sultanistic regimes is a mixed blessing — it helps the revolutionaries when they are in the streets, but it complicates the task of nation-building after they win.

A smart dictator of a sultanistic regime eviscerates his country’s institutions; rules by personal fiat, not by law; and creates a divided society in which sycophancy and corruption are the paths to prosperity. Citizens of such societies lack even a shared set of values — they live in what Mr. Snyder called “a belief vacuum.”

That is why it will be neither a failure nor a betrayal if the best the Libyan rebels manage to establish is a weak democracy that is unstable, divided and inefficient. Effective democracies take generations to build. They are the opposite of sultanistic regimes: hard to establish, internally complex and querulous, but enduring.

You do not need a degree in political science to figure that out. Daenerys, one of the heroines of the George Martin fantasy series on which HBO’s TV serial is based, discovers that overthrowing the cruel, slave-owning oligarchies that run a troika of city-states is surprisingly easy. But she despairs when the regimes that replace them turn out to be little better.

It is easy to cheer the fall of the sultanistic dictatorships. Now is the moment to remember to be patient when their humiliated and divided people find it is a struggle to build a government that is not quite so bad

read full article here -

blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2011...sts-game-of-thrones/

JK2006 wrote:
No surprises there. Thank God those nice rebels haven't killed anyone or the BBC would be telling us about them too, wouldn't it.

Early days yet,remember it took time for the situation to deteriorate in Iraq and Afhgan.
It would be a very sad situation indeed if I have to go round activating old threads saying 'told u so' in a few months time.

Wow .. ex-cons with axes to grind ... very surprising! All just innocent rebels? No genuine criminal?

Yeah right.

Yes - sadly I believe (through personal experience) that the BBC is in terminal decline - lazy, inaccurate, corrupt - like the rest of society. I would bet it's fear of the winning side (and the one we - the UK - has backed) plus laziness (harder to discover those new bodies and proof of the rape of soldiers' wives etc) that has meant silence. And as PH says, now those nice inmates are out of jail (many innocent victims of Gaddafi's regime but quite a few thoroughly nasty criminals too, I bet) we can expect some appalling atrocities which, I guarantee, won't emerge into the media until a few weeks after things have settled down and the "mass graves of Gaddafi victims" stories have become boring) when they become... a great story.

JK2006 wrote:
"mass graves of Gaddafi victims"

Khamis Gaddafi to be added to the "wanted list" by the ICC

JK2006 wrote:
I bet) we can expect some appalling atrocities which, I guarantee, won't emerge into the media until a few weeks after things have settled down .

Jk you are starting to sound like Gaddafi - convinced of your infallibility, and seeing "spies and traitors" everywhere !

In The Know wrote:
JK2006 wrote:
I bet) we can expect some appalling atrocities which, I guarantee, won't emerge into the media until a few weeks after things have settled down .

Jk you are starting to sound like Gaddafi - convinced of your infallibility, and seeing "spies and traitors" everywhere !

Oh dear ITK,thought we may have converted you to the pleasures of sensible debate..obviously sliding back into old habits again!

From what I understand the graves / corpses have recently been found. There is no evidence, yet, to show what happened. We should wait until a proper investigation - if such things are still allowed. The UN has admitted that there have been atrocities on both sides.

In The Know wrote:
Khamis Gaddafi to be added to the "wanted list" by the ICC

Ooops - too late .... he's dead !

news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16058574

Pumpkinhead wrote:
From what I understand the graves / corpses have recently been found. There is no evidence, yet, to show what happened. We should wait until a proper investigation - if such things are still allowed. The UN has admitted that there have been atrocities on both sides.

Still in denial I see !

Denial of being easily convinced? Oh yes, we are ITK; not as rapidly certain after tabloid coverage as you are.

Pumpkinhead wrote:
Wow .. ex-cons with axes to grind ... very surprising! All just innocent rebels? No genuine criminal?

Yeah right.

not unlike Castro's clever move in releasing all Cuba's criminals when the US encouraged Cubans to flee...they all ended up in Florida which became the centre of Cuban crime gangs.

In The Know wrote:
Pumpkinhead wrote:
From what I understand the graves / corpses have recently been found. There is no evidence, yet, to show what happened. We should wait until a proper investigation - if such things are still allowed. The UN has admitted that there have been atrocities on both sides.

Still in denial I see !

The only denial here would be you denying us the 'pleasure' of ur company

JK2006 wrote:
Denial of being easily convinced? Oh yes, we are ITK; not as rapidly certain after tabloid coverage as you are.

No ... denial of reality !

Many (on here) "denied" that Gaddafi would ever be removed.

Then ... the story changed to "just wait and see - the new lot will be worse"

Even when bodies are produced (next door to one of Gaddafi's son's "elite" terror units) and eye witnesses say what happened, we still need to "wait for evidence" LOL !

... and what if you dont like that evidence ?

More denial ?

Definition of denial - changing past opinions so they look ridiculous and then mocking them. Only the brain dead fall for that ITK.

I think any independent reader (as opposed to the sycophants) can clearly see who has (grudgingly) shifted positions, JK !