Cameron toes the media line and waffles on about "moral collapse" but actually he's right without knowing it. I heard the BBC yesterday (an American actually, commenting on the US - but equally appropriate) say "Innocent until proved guilty".

That is the new bastardisation of the old saw which was, of course "unless and until". Simply "until" implies that the accused will, naturally, be eventually convicted. The truth is - of course - we are now "guilty unless we can prove ourselves innocent" but British Justice - in thrall to the "good story" media - pretends otherwise (until the appeals kick in; which are very rarely reported).

yes that has annoyed me greatly..the substitute of 'until' for 'unless'.

Cameron is indeed correct about 'moral collapse' but it happened before my lifetime so he's taken a good while for the penny to drop even if he is younger !

as for his waffle about Christian values etc...it will be forgotten within days but it gives The Mail some good copy as they bleat on about the 'hero' who assaulted a young man on a train and the Christian readers say he should have put the other boot in

Locked Out wrote:
Oh, God {though not literally}. Haven't we heard all this before? Mrs Thatcher and her "Victorian Values", John Major and his "Back To Basics" ring any bells?

The truth is that while these people are really keen to waffle on about "Christian Morality", they conveniently forget that our history is brimming with examples of good, devout Christian folk who rammed little boys up chimneys and made thorough - and regular - use of 12 year old prostitutes who led sad, degraded lives of legally approved abuse.

The same civic worthies were, of course, less discriminating in their factories. A dead body under a loom might that of a boy or a girl. It really didn't matter just as long as the work got done and the profits came in.

They uprooted, bought, sold and transported slaves like cattle. And while some of those responsible for reform and repeal were undoubtedly motivated by Christian charity, let us not ignore the fact that they were very much in a minority, and were seen as dangerous revolutionaries by many.

Christian slum landlords oversaw the squalid lives and deaths of millions in the stews of London and every other industrial city throughout Britain.

And the Christian monarchy drove tens of thousands of Scots out of their homes and lands in the Highland Clearances of 1745.

A century before, our ancestors - fired by their own "Christian morality" were going about their merry and deeply pious work, rounding up innocent people and torturing confessions of witchcraft out of them. Having probed, ducked, pricked and beaten them half to death, they finished off the job with a merciless, painful and long-winded hanging. All carried out, needless to say, in the name of Christianity.

It's almost unfair to mention auto da fe, as it was a blight which wasn't exclusively a symptom of Christian Britain. But what the hell, I'm going to chuck it in anyway. The Inquisition was very much at work here too.

I could go on about the other iniquities which should make Christianity a byword for abuse in any study of the history of Britain rather than something a British Prime Minister should wish to use as a vote winner. But what's the point?

You all know that we have done, in the name of Jesus, a whole load of stuff we should be ashamed of. And while it is certainly true that the history of Great Britain is littered with things of which we can be rightly proud, sadly, few of those things have anything at all to do with religion of any creed or denomination.

So my message to Mr. Cameron would be simple, blunt, and to the point.

"You are talking garbage. You ought to know you're talking garbage because you had a tremendously expensive education. Find another bandwagon to jump on or fuck off. Actually, forget the bandwagon. Just fuck off."

It may well be that dressing in £3,500-a-time costumes and smashing up restaurants has given Mr. Cameron the idea that he has, along with his fellow Bullingdon men, an almost divine right to the reins of power, and this is simply the next step in his campaign to turn "almost" into "actual". Or, perhaps, it's just an attempt to curry favour with the Almighty because he suspects that one day people might just see through the facade and chuck him out, in which case friends in high places other than the Bullingdon Club might just come in handy. Unless, of course, he's simply cocking a snook at Rowan Williams. Surely our multi-millionaire PM would never be that cheap? Don't you believe it.

Fucking Spiv.

The only problem with politics are the politicians

yes it's quite startling to read about Christians manhandling small children in the past and using them as cheap labour...they were very brutal.

But I think Christianity gets a bad name from those who use it to justify their own actions.

If I read the bible..I can't spot one flaw in what Jesus is supposed to have said..especially as he comes across as the first Marxist / Socialist !!

but others in the Bible..basically you can find a verse to justify every awful action.

At the same time I have met complete saint like people (especially in the Catholic church) who are wonderful.

but every ..***ism gets perverted..including capitalism which has raged out of control especially in the USA.

I'm not a massive of David Cameron but I think he is right on this occasion.