I'm nervous about this determination to tell other countries how to run their lives; partly because we don't do it that well ourselves; partly because it reeks of missionary zeal.

Yes; if they are a threat to other countries. Yes, if their populace needs help. But both these can be fake motives designed to cover real reasons (oil).

The rioters in Tottenham wanted a different society. But I'm not sure they or those burning furniture shops in Croydon warranted NATO support.

OK I'm being silly but there's a valid point in the joke.

You have a point, JK ... but surely (as we live in a democracy) the will of the majority should prevail ?

The majority in the countries you mention want freedom - and are repressed (and murdered) when they seek it.

The Tottenham rioters were NOT the majority (just a load of freeloaders and thieves) ... in fact left to them (who contribute absolutely nothing to society) there would be no society at all !

I wonder if they would want it then ????

Ah, yes, ITK; my point is - many of the regimes mentioned would describe the "rebels" as we choose to describe the rioters.

And where would we be if our "rioters" claimed genuine grievances (such as locking up people falsely accused and convicted by the bent judicial system)?

JK2006 wrote:
Ah, yes, ITK; my point is - many of the regimes mentioned would describe the "rebels" as we choose to describe the rioters.

Ah, but, those regimes have no legitimacy in their claims do they?
Any regime forced to kill it own people surely know its on a path to extinction.

And where would we be if our "rioters" claimed genuine grievances (such as locking up people falsely accused and convicted by the bent judicial system)?

Although the system is not perfect - far from it - ALL people who have a genuine (and proveable!) grievance have a form of redress.

Any regime worth its salt claims "legitimacy" (we "elected" the coalition).
Our regime doesn't KILL people (too unsubtle - lock them up and let them die without the meejah noticing or caring).
Believe me, if "outside forces" (after our oil?) wanted to crush our democratic regime, the meejah would find a way of blackening its reputation (pictures of starving kids and abused women) and turning our "rebels" (rioters) into heros and champions fighting for freedom (like those nice Libyans and those sweet Iranians expelling the Shah).

You're assuming the tabloids tell the truth ITK.

And read in today's Times Law Report details of the failed appeal attempt by Mohammed Gul.

It involves the definition of terrorism.

Gul complained that videos of attacks on the coalition forces in Iraq and Afghanistan were not terrorism; that the international forces were invasion forces and protest against them was therefore not terrorism.

The Judge said they were and gave Gul 5 years.

The judge involved, incidentally, was David Paget; the judge in my case.

Syria has fired into Turkish territory - refugees are not safe even when they have fled the Country !

news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16205174

Appeasing tyrants never works, JK - it shows weakness and emboldens the tyrant ... we should have had him executed months ago.