Let's cast our minds back to summer 2020. The pandemic of March/April had subsided and after June, until basically November, we were free to travel and enjoy holidays.

Now in 2021 - many more people have been exposed to the virus and are immune and many (in the UK) have been vaccinated. The virus is again subsiding, as it seems to be a seasonal respiratory illness.

Based on the level of immunity (natural and vaccinated) the situation cannot be worse in summer 2021 than it was in summer 2020. So why are our politicians already starting to "rule out" international travel? It just makes no sense - or is it just me?

There will be some noisy neo-puritans on the internet who will say that holidays are not essential, but it's time to stop just existing and start living, enjoying our lives, including non-essential travel.

The only sense I have heard on this topic came this week from Professor Mark Woolhouse, who commented that opening schools - and beaches - was safe.

P.S. Let's not be confused that the level of infection is dropping due to vaccination. It is dropping everywhere as spring begins (it is now very low here in Germany despite poor progress with vaccinations). Correlation is not causation.

Yes I went off end June - the day stupid Lockdown ended. Had a wonderful summer on the Riviera and in Rome. Returned late October. Fully intend to piss off again soon. I refuse to obey morons, gullibles and stupids whether they be politicians or media Editors.

Me too. I already have 4 trips booked to sunny places which I intend to take!

No doubt the borders will be "open" but it will be made difficult with testing and such to try to dissuade people.

And I am hoping that there will not be discrimination between those who have been vaccinated and those who have not yet been offered the vaccine. I would say that there'd be an outcry if that happens, but - people just seem to lie down and accept things these days.

Yes it doesn't make any sense Kantilever. I don't think any of it does. The fuss that has been made of "new variants" by the media means the Gov blindly follows and at the moment they think they need to concentrate on our borders. On this logic, we in the UK will become a locked island as we become too terrified to live.

It won't happen...but our idiotic leaders currently feel they need to masturbate in this manner in public. Let's just smile at them and wait for them to finish...

Kantilever wrote:
I am hoping that there will not be discrimination between those who have been vaccinated and those who have not yet been offered the vaccine.


Discrimination is inevitable - but simply between those vaccinated, and those not. No unvaccinated person will be allowed on a cruise ship, for example.

And destinations and venues will have their individual rules and regulations - perhaps including vaccine types and timings - making travel cumbersome.

Some type of international passport/system is essential, particularly as vaccines aren't compulsory anywhere - and the variants' increasing infection rates.

Laschet wrote:
[quote]Kantilever wrote:


Some type of international passport/system is essential, particularly as vaccines aren't compulsory anywhere - and the variants' increasing infection rates.

I sincerely hope you are wrong Laschet. This will mean every time a new variant appears (they appear all the time in all viruses) millions won't be permitted to travel until vaccinated. Millions of holidays would be cancelled as variants pop up everywhere. The world would become a small anxious place.

And what would any of it achieve? We don't do this for flu. And vaccines in general will mean we won't have an undue number dying anywhere in the world "with" this modest Covid virus.

No need for a passport system at all. Just get the vaccine programme completed and get back to Feb 2020.

Stop the hysteria.

Fair enough. But would you go on an ocean cruise or coach trip - which made no vaccine stipulation for passengers? Quite honestly, I wouldn't.

I wouldn't go on a cruise or coach trip anyway, if you paid me a million quid. Nothing to do with infectious diseases.

Laschet wrote:
Fair enough. But would you go on an ocean cruise or coach trip - which made no vaccine stipulation for passengers? Quite honestly, I wouldn't.

Yes I would; particularly if I had been vaccinated. As a 48 year old with no health vulnerabilities I am more likely to die of food poisoning on the cruise.

If I was more vulnerable to it I might weigh it up more. But that's the point. Once the NHS isn't going to collapse (if it ever was...) and the vulnerable are vaccinated we get back to normal, weigh the risks and make infividual choices.

We do this every time we go for a drive, have a fag or eat red meat.

It's called freedom and our Government needs to hand it back and stop abusing our trust.

Wyot wrote:
[quote]Laschet wrote:
Kantilever wrote:


Some type of international passport/system is essential, particularly as vaccines aren't compulsory anywhere - and the variants' increasing infection rates.

I sincerely hope you are wrong Laschet. This will mean every time a new variant appears (they appear all the time in all viruses) millions won't be permitted to travel until vaccinated. Millions of holidays would be cancelled as variants pop up everywhere. The world would become a small anxious place.

And what would any of it achieve? We don't do this for flu. And vaccines in general will mean we won't have an undue number dying anywhere in the world "with" this modest Covid virus.

No need for a passport system at all. Just get the vaccine programme completed and get back to Feb 2020.

Stop the hysteria.

It wont be every time there is a variant. It will be to pre-empt the variants. On and on until we have all forgotten what they were a variant of in the first place.

Wyot wrote:
It's called freedom and our Government needs to hand it back and stop abusing our trust.


Just like our stance on freedom of speech - where we decide whether shouting 'fire' in a crowded theatre is acceptable - we'll have to consider if not having a vaccination is a reasonable exercisation of our freedom.

Honey wrote:
[quote]Wyot wrote:
[quote]Laschet wrote:
[quote]Kantilever wrote:



It wont be every time there is a variant. It will be to pre-empt the variants. On and on until we have all forgotten what they were a variant of in the first place.

As long as I can go on holiday again without wearing a muzzle most of the time or having to walk around everyone like they are on fire I don't care what they are jabbing me for....

Laschet wrote:
Wyot wrote:
It's called freedom and our Government needs to hand it back and stop abusing our trust.


Just like our stance on freedom of speech - where we decide whether shouting 'fire' in a crowded theatre is acceptable - we'll have to consider if not having a vaccination is a reasonable exercisation of our freedom.

This not alike at all. We have never had any restrictions on shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre. This has always been acceptable. It is not what freedom of speech means.

Laschet wrote:
Wyot wrote:
It's called freedom and our Government needs to hand it back and stop abusing our trust.


Just like our stance on freedom of speech - where we decide whether shouting 'fire' in a crowded theatre is acceptable - we'll have to consider if not having a vaccination is a reasonable exercisation of our freedom.

When has the U.K. ever had free speech?

Wyot wrote:
No need for a passport system at all.


Israel - top of the vaccination league table, for speed and numbers - would disagree.

They've come up with a 'green flag' app, which allows vaccine recipients more freedom.

And to combat variants, travel to or from Israel is strictly prohibited - with no quarantine hotels.

Pfizer's jab - is the sole choice of Israel, which confirms its 95.8% efficacy.

Other countries are beginning to follow Israel's lead - and this seems the most prudent course.

Laschet wrote:
Wyot wrote:
No need for a passport system at all.


Israel - top of the vaccination league table, for speed and numbers - would disagree.

They've come up with a 'green flag' app, which allows vaccine recipients more freedom.

And to combat variants, travel to or from Israel is strictly prohibited - with no quarantine hotels.

Pfizer's jab - is the sole choice of Israel, which confirms its 95.8% efficacy.

Other countries are beginning to follow Israel's lead - and this seems the most prudent course.

The most prudent course would be to never leave the house again.

Sorry but I just don't care what Israel may be doing. I'm only interested in analysis rather than description.

If you were to argue why passports are in your view needed and what they might achieve (and what you rely on to come to this conclusion) I would be more than happy to get into a debate.

Laschet wrote:
Wyot wrote:
No need for a passport system at all.


Israel - top of the vaccination league table, for speed and numbers - would disagree.

They've come up with a 'green flag' app, which allows vaccine recipients more freedom.

And to combat variants, travel to or from Israel is strictly prohibited - with no quarantine hotels.

Pfizer's jab - is the sole choice of Israel, which confirms its 95.8% efficacy.

Other countries are beginning to follow Israel's lead - and this seems the most prudent course.

Well hopefully it will be ok, but they have rather put all their eggs in one basket, haven't they?

Wyot wrote:
If you were to argue why passports are in your view needed....


Vaccine passports would obviously improve the lives and freedoms of those vaccinated.

And, as the link shows, some countries have already adopted the completely logical idea.

To be followed by the UK, US and Australia - and probably by most of the countries in the world.


www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/count...ire-vaccine-19848788

Laschet wrote:
Wyot wrote:
If you were to argue why passports are in your view needed....


Vaccine passports would obviously improve the lives and freedoms of those vaccinated.

And, as the link shows, some countries have already adopted the completely logical idea.

To be followed by the UK, US and Australia - and probably by most of the countries in the world.


www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/count...ire-vaccine-19848788

But they don't know that the vaccines stop you transmitting the virus yet.
If so, what is the point?

Laschet wrote:
Wyot wrote:
If you were to argue why passports are in your view needed....


Vaccine passports would obviously improve the lives and freedoms of those vaccinated.

And, as the link shows, some countries have already adopted the completely logical idea.

To be followed by the UK, US and Australia - and probably by most of the countries in the world.


Vaccine passports will improve the lives and freedoms of those who have been vaccinated in a world of vaccine passports.

Yes, of course they will. But this is a circular argument. The passports only benefit people because the passport scheme exists.

It is the merits and needs for the existence of the scheme in the first place we are debating.

Take one step back Laschet...