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TOPIC: Gone with the Wind
#199339
Barney

Gone with the Wind 2 Months ago  
HBO Max have now dropped this 1939 movie as a result of the Black Lives Matter issues. The movie was set in Atlanta, when slaves were a feature of life.

But discrimination against black people was still prevalent at the 1940 Oscar Ceremony - when Hattie McDaniel became the first black person to be nominated for, and win, an Academy award.

Even the hotel, where the ceremony took place, barred black people - and McDaniel was reluctantly admitted on the basis that she sat at a separate table, at the back of the room, during the ceremony.


It took 50 years for another black woman - Whoopi Goldberg - to reprise McDaniel who, sadly, suffered abuse from the black and whites sides of the spectrum.

Many black Americans saw her successful involvement in the Hollywood and Oscar machine - as a betrayal. Many whites - as not merited.


 
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#199343
Green Man

Re:Gone with the Wind 2 Months ago  
Lets ban White Chicks. Years ago in a New York theatre, they showed late night screening of Mandingo. I remember the women swooning at the topless buff dudes and some bloke wolf whistling at James Mason.

There was me thinking "why am I out so late ?"
 
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#199345
wyot

Re:Gone with the Wind 2 Months ago  
I think it would be easiest and safest just to erase all cultural art products from history today, as a close enough study will reveal something wrong, and start from a blank state (is it ok to say blank? I don't wish to offend the ignorant)

I mean Tolstoy had serfs on his estate. He ended up trying to emancipate them but still...War and Peace can go for starters...
 
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#199349
Honey

Re:Gone with the Wind 2 Months ago  
I am appalled.
I have always thought that Gone with the wind portrayed the injustice of slavery very well, and explained the thinking at the time.
 
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#199351
wyot

Re:Gone with the Wind 2 Months ago  
Honey wrote:
I am appalled.
I have always thought that Gone with the wind portrayed the injustice of slavery very well, and explained the thinking at the time.


I don't think nuance or context matters to a growing number of people Honey; it is truly scary.
 
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#199356
Green Man

Re:Gone with the Wind 2 Months ago  
Honey wrote:
I am appalled.
I have always thought that Gone with the wind portrayed the injustice of slavery very well, and explained the thinking at the time.


I always assumed the film was about would happen if the South won the Civil War.
 
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#199365
Jo

Re:Gone with the Wind 2 Months ago  
I haven't seen the film in a while but did think there was racism in the silly squeaky-voiced maid, especially in the scene where Scarlett slaps her across the face. I seem to remember seeing a documentary about how blacks were portrayed in films in Hollywood and that actress had been asked to eat a slice of watermelon in a film, possibly Gone with the Wind, and had refused because she felt it was racist.

I wonder if French and Saunders' sketches of Gone with the Wind should be banned too. There was something on the news yesterday that Little Britain reruns are no longer going to be shown somewhere because of the portrayal of non-white characters in some of the sketches.
 
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#199368
wyot

Re:Gone with the Wind 2 Months ago  
Jo wrote:
I haven't seen the film in a while but did think there was racism in the silly squeaky-voiced maid, especially in the scene where Scarlett slaps her across the face. I seem to remember seeing a documentary about how blacks were portrayed in films in Hollywood and that actress had been asked to eat a slice of watermelon in a film, possibly Gone with the Wind, and had refused because she felt it was racist.

I wonder if French and Saunders' sketches of Gone with the Wind should be banned too. There was something on the news yesterday that Little Britain reruns are no longer going to be shown somewhere because of the portrayal of non-white characters in some of the sketches.


I suppose the question is will watching historic shows that didn't treat subjects sensitively, if watched now cause harm?

I don't think anyone watching GWTW now would be made racist by doing so. In fact I think those type of moments are so cringeworthy to a modern sensibility that they will increase anti racism.

But then I accept that if I were black and watching GWTW I might feel personally upset and hurt by such scenes.

Should we airbrush historic art so no one ever feels "hurt"? How "hurt" do they have to experience to justify this? How do you measure "hurt"? Is it ever justified to ban a work of art because of "hurt potential"?
 
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#199369
Green Man

Re:Gone with the Wind 2 Months ago  
Jo wrote:
I haven't seen the film in a while but did think there was racism in the silly squeaky-voiced maid, especially in the scene where Scarlett slaps her across the face. I seem to remember seeing a documentary about how blacks were portrayed in films in Hollywood and that actress had been asked to eat a slice of watermelon in a film, possibly Gone with the Wind, and had refused because she felt it was racist.

I wonder if French and Saunders' sketches of Gone with the Wind should be banned too. There was something on the news yesterday that Little Britain reruns are no longer going to be shown somewhere because of the portrayal of non-white characters in some of the sketches.




Once we stopped TV repeats because off non pc content, do we go on to book burning ?

I tried Little Britain for 5 minutes then, throw my remote at the TV. I'm not in to TV comedy especially now.

Comedians should not apologize for jokes nor pander to mobs. I loved going the old comedy clubs in Manhattan and Brooklyn back in the 1980s.

The old black comedians were amazing, took the piss out of everything and everyone, same with the one was a headteacher. No blacks were offended either with his jokes in the club. It was all tit for tat and they were JOKES.
 
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#199371
Honey

Re:Gone with the Wind 2 Months ago  
Jo wrote:
I haven't seen the film in a while but did think there was racism in the silly squeaky-voiced maid, especially in the scene where Scarlett slaps her across the face. I seem to remember seeing a documentary about how blacks were portrayed in films in Hollywood and that actress had been asked to eat a slice of watermelon in a film, possibly Gone with the Wind, and had refused because she felt it was racist.

I wonder if French and Saunders' sketches of Gone with the Wind should be banned too. There was something on the news yesterday that Little Britain reruns are no longer going to be shown somewhere because of the portrayal of non-white characters in some of the sketches.


To be fair, I think anyone who lies about being practically a midwife so she is left in sole charge, only to bleat "oh Miss Scarlett, I dont know nuffin bout birfin babies" when her services are required and the Yankees are coming, is liable to get a thump!

Butterfly McQueen thought the scene was demeaning at the time, but later said...

"As I look back on "Gone with the Wind," for instance, I feel it is useful to have this authenticity, We've got to know more about where we've come from. I wasn't too happy about the whole thing, but also later in life, as I looked around, I decided to take what I could get and then use it for what I want to do."
 
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#199372
Honey

Re:Gone with the Wind 2 Months ago  
wyot wrote:
Jo wrote:
I haven't seen the film in a while but did think there was racism in the silly squeaky-voiced maid, especially in the scene where Scarlett slaps her across the face. I seem to remember seeing a documentary about how blacks were portrayed in films in Hollywood and that actress had been asked to eat a slice of watermelon in a film, possibly Gone with the Wind, and had refused because she felt it was racist.

I wonder if French and Saunders' sketches of Gone with the Wind should be banned too. There was something on the news yesterday that Little Britain reruns are no longer going to be shown somewhere because of the portrayal of non-white characters in some of the sketches.


I suppose the question is will watching historic shows that didn't treat subjects sensitively, if watched now cause harm?

I don't think anyone watching GWTW now would be made racist by doing so. In fact I think those type of moments are so cringeworthy to a modern sensibility that they will increase anti racism.

But then I accept that if I were black and watching GWTW I might feel personally upset and hurt by such scenes.

Should we airbrush historic art so no one ever feels "hurt"? How "hurt" do they have to experience to justify this? How do you measure "hurt"? Is it ever justified to ban a work of art because of "hurt potential"?


No, of course it isn't. It is a load of attention seeking nonsense!

Anyone who is not prepared to bulldoze the pyramids (built by slaves) can shut up.
 
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#199373
Green Man

Re:Gone with the Wind 2 Months ago  
Honey wrote:
Jo wrote:
I haven't seen the film in a while but did think there was racism in the silly squeaky-voiced maid, especially in the scene where Scarlett slaps her across the face. I seem to remember seeing a documentary about how blacks were portrayed in films in Hollywood and that actress had been asked to eat a slice of watermelon in a film, possibly Gone with the Wind, and had refused because she felt it was racist.

I wonder if French and Saunders' sketches of Gone with the Wind should be banned too. There was something on the news yesterday that Little Britain reruns are no longer going to be shown somewhere because of the portrayal of non-white characters in some of the sketches.


To be fair, I think anyone who lies about being practically a midwife so she is left in sole charge, only to bleat "oh Miss Scarlett, I dont know nuffin bout birfin babies" when her services are required and the Yankees are coming, is liable to get a thump!

Butterfly McQueen thought the scene was demeaning at the time, but later said...

"As I look back on "Gone with the Wind," for instance, I feel it is useful to have this authenticity, We've got to know more about where we've come from. I wasn't too happy about the whole thing, but also later in life, as I looked around, I decided to take what I could get and then use it for what I want to do."



I used to tease my peers about Yankee soldiers. My nan said "I like British stuff, the Yankees and Irish are all talk and no lead in the pencil"

Also she said "The Yankess are too long coming". (Innuendo)
 
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#199375
Barney

Re:Gone with the Wind 2 Months ago  
Honey wrote:
Anyone who is not prepared to bulldoze the pyramids (built by slaves) can shut up.


Most historians and Egyptologists now believe that the Great Pyramids were not built by slaves.

Rather by peasants who were promised a role in the afterlife - in return for their toil, for which they received food and lodgings.

A significant number of workers travelled from abroad - making it even more unlikely that they choose to be slaves.


 
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#199376
Honey

Re:Gone with the Wind 2 Months ago  
Barney wrote:
Honey wrote:
Anyone who is not prepared to bulldoze the pyramids (built by slaves) can shut up.


Most historians and Egyptologists now believe that the Great Pyramids were not built by slaves.

Rather by peasants who were promised a role in the afterlife - in return for their toil, for which they received food and lodgings.

A significant number of workers travelled from abroad - making it even more unlikely that they choose to be slaves.




Oh I see. So a bit like the fruit pickers we rip off then?
 
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#199378
wyot

Re:Gone with the Wind 2 Months ago  
Barney wrote:
Honey wrote:
Anyone who is not prepared to bulldoze the pyramids (built by slaves) can shut up.


Most historians and Egyptologists now believe that the Great Pyramids were not built by slaves.

Rather by peasants who were promised a role in the afterlife - in return for their toil, for which they received food and lodgings.

A significant number of workers travelled from abroad - making it even more unlikely that they choose to be slaves.




I understand that a lot of workers have travelled here from abroad and ended up modern slaves; given board and lodgings and food...

I think lockdown has been going on too long for us all....
 
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#199379
Green Man

Re:Gone with the Wind 2 Months ago  
Barney wrote:
Honey wrote:
Anyone who is not prepared to bulldoze the pyramids (built by slaves) can shut up.


Most historians and Egyptologists now believe that the Great Pyramids were not built by slaves.

Rather by peasants who were promised a role in the afterlife - in return for their toil, for which they received food and lodgings.

A significant number of workers travelled from abroad - making it even more unlikely that they choose to be slaves.




Sounds like a crafty way to get slaves.
 
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#199383
Barney

Re:Gone with the Wind 2 Months ago  
Green Man wrote:
Sounds like a crafty way to get slaves.


Perhaps. But Pharaohs were believed to be all powerful - and the intermediaries between man, and the Gods.

And the Gods gave prosperity, sent plagues and won battles.

On death - a Pharaoh became devine - and, so for a man to help build his tomb was considered as a free pass to immortality.

Masons and craftsmen (as well as peasants) came from all over to ensure their futures after death - and brought their families with them.

With entry into heaven/after life assured (family included) - if they worked hard, and followed the instructions of the Pharaohs' architects and foremen.


This total belief - of achieving immortality by following the will of God - still features strongly in many religions today.

A heavenly after death is often the aim and rationale for fighting to the end - and for suicide bombers - and promoted as such by some organisations, for their own aims.



 
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#199384
Jo

Re:Gone with the Wind 2 Months ago  
Green Man wrote:
Once we stopped TV repeats because off non pc content, do we go on to book burning ?
I don't think French and Saunders or Little Britain reruns should be stopped. I agree that it's a slippery slope.

Honey wrote:
To be fair, I think anyone who lies about being practically a midwife so she is left in sole charge, only to bleat "oh Miss Scarlett, I dont know nuffin bout birfin babies" when her services are required and the Yankees are coming, is liable to get a thump!
Yes, I think part of what makes that scene uncomfortable is that part of you (or at least me) thinks the maid deserved it. But if I'm not mistaken even white women being slapped across the face when they got hysterical, and perhaps when they didn't, wasn't unusual in old Hollywood films.

Butterfly McQueen thought the scene was demeaning at the time, but later said...

"As I look back on "Gone with the Wind," for instance, I feel it is useful to have this authenticity, We've got to know more about where we've come from. I wasn't too happy about the whole thing, but also later in life, as I looked around, I decided to take what I could get and then use it for what I want to do."

That's interesting.
 
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#199392
Green Man

Re:Gone with the Wind 2 Months ago  
Barney wrote:
Green Man wrote:
Sounds like a crafty way to get slaves.


Perhaps. But Pharaohs were believed to be all powerful - and the intermediaries between man, and the Gods.

And the Gods gave prosperity, sent plagues and won battles.

On death - a Pharaoh became devine - and, so for a man to help build his tomb was considered as a free pass to immortality.

Masons and craftsmen (as well as peasants) came from all over to ensure their futures after death - and brought their families with them.

With entry into heaven/after life assured (family included) - if they worked hard, and followed the instructions of the Pharaohs' architects and foremen.


This total belief - of achieving immortality by following the will of God - still features strongly in many religions today.

A heavenly after death is often the aim and rationale for fighting to the end - and for suicide bombers - and promoted as such by some organisations, for their own aims.






All whilst disguising slavery and banging their own family members ?

Reminds me of Portland, Oregon.
 
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#199393
Green Man

Re:Gone with the Wind 2 Months ago  
Honey wrote:
Barney wrote:
Honey wrote:
Anyone who is not prepared to bulldoze the pyramids (built by slaves) can shut up.


Most historians and Egyptologists now believe that the Great Pyramids were not built by slaves.

Rather by peasants who were promised a role in the afterlife - in return for their toil, for which they received food and lodgings.

A significant number of workers travelled from abroad - making it even more unlikely that they choose to be slaves.




Oh I see. So a bit like the fruit pickers we rip off then?


Blame the farmers - they don't want British workers because then they have to pay the minimum wage.
 
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