Oh I do agree I Know Nothing; simply observations; but my point is that Governments are reacting dangerously badly because they have believed the media hype. I may be wrong but even if Covid does prove to be as lethal as cancer (10 million deaths a year) the reaction has been WELL over the top and ruinous to society.

JK2006 wrote:
Wrong way around BB - the story was created before the facts. I have no agenda. I love the media - have been a part of it for 60 years. I know it well; both traditional and social. I reverse the criticism. No conspiracy here. You've been brainwashed. Not for any theoretical reason. No big corporations or big brothers. Simply media exaggerating to make a better story (it's in its nature) and most people - sadly including most governments - obeying the instructions given, were the media image correct.

Why lockdown? Because, if this IS a lethal plague, dangerous to millions, as Ebola would be if it was more infectious, we need to try to Stop The Spread.

I agree with that. I just don't agree with the estimate of the virus. And slowly, as facts surfaces, neither do "the experts". Not any longer.
They see so few deaths (inflated by media in quantity & importance) and are beginning to realise - this is NOT a deadly virus for the majority.

So you disagree with me. Fair enough. You agree with media coverage. Fair enough. You know that there are 10 million cancer deaths a year yet you think Covid19 is a far more dangerous disease, requiring far more autocratic remedies. Fair enough. When I suggest banning smoking would have saved far more lives than Covid lockdowns with far less disruption to society, you disagree. Fair enough. When I point out that Covid19 seems to be ten times less lethal than cancer, you disagree. Fair enough.

But don't describe an "agenda" when there is none. Don't call me a conspiracy theorist when I'm not.

You believe. I don't. I've provided my reasons. Now you explain why I'm wrong. And feel free to continue to vote for those you think have got it dead right (DEAD being the operative word looking at the deaths caused by the Death Four government actions). Clap for the NHS despite the 45,000 deaths in the UK. Obey media instructions and dismiss alternative views as "agendas" or "conspiracy theories". You think I'm mad. I think you're gullible.


I'll drink to that.

Not forgetting there's so much conflicting information - in which is by design to confuse the public. The establishment can do thing's but we can't can't etc.

I had an interesting Zoom conversation with friends from 5 different states in America. 2 of them had went to the doctor for routine check ups.

They were told that their doctors who have very strong thoughts on Covid 19 and
they are told to just followrules and procedures. A doctor said that person in their 80s could recover from the virus, if they have a decent immune system just as the body fight's off the common cold.

We know Covid 19 will cause damage to the ones with bad immune system and underlying health conditions.

There's not much we can do.

Take diabetes for example it's a horrible disease, but is manageable with diet, insulin, pills etc. It causes bad circulation and stops the body from healing quickly, now if you have a virus in the body it affects it more.

Now there's millita groups now challenging people who refuses to wear masks even if they could be medically except from wearing one.

I have to go to a jewellers next week. Now we were told anyone in a mask can't enter the store, but government told us to wear masks. It's an absolute 🤡 world.

The film Idiocracy is now a documentary.

Of course hindsight is a luxury. It certainly is when you are using it to critic those who had to make decisions without the information you later acquire because of it.

But not when you criticise those for failing to examine facts available at the time because it was easier to believe tabloid headlines and make policy on slogans and simplistic caricatures. Which is what many governments did. Don't pretend one thing and then argue against that. Reality is complex.

It is indeed complex and if the governments of experts took a different approach, it dosen't mean we would necessarily be celebrating, we could easily be sitting here discussing the many more lives their actions lost.

taking into account the complexities of reality, this world and new unknown viruses, as well as the equal number of uncertainties, there is certainly no smoking gun to suggest restricted lockdown would have been more effective. Indeed when people who are out and about doing front line jobs die of the virus, you are certainly dealing with an untamed beast, one required action is an urgent necessity, not a long drawn out process of tests, recorded document, and reflective analysis of many months of data. In an ideal world you have access to this for any problem, except one of this magnitude. Then again, in an ideal world, problems of this magnitude would not happen in the first place.

The only "conspiracy" I can see is the ongoing willingness to ignore facts about Covid that have been known from the start, many of which are emerging now as if they are new and to blindly accept the media portrayal of "The Black Death".

If the Gov had checked the facts about the virus from the start, it may have reacted in a responsible way and protected the vulnerable. It responded instead to media sensationalism and imposed a largely pointless mass lockdown instead.

This doesn't mean it isn't killing people and isn't a valid concern...and I don't believe a combination of David Icke and The Knights Templar are weaving their black arts...yawn...

You misunderstand me; I'm not saying this horrid virus, like Flu or Cancer or Heart Attacks - should just be shrugged off. I am saying media inflation (continuing hourly) makes it seem so far worse than it is that governments and even individuals react way over the top; and that causes far worse problems. Fewer would have died and will die if common sense dominated.

Whether fewer would have died if we had took a more lighter approach as consider the worst case scenario is speculative, seeing as that doesn't just rely on the common sense of ourselves, we also have to rely on everyone else possessing common sense, and for a lot of people, if something isn't serious and the worst possible outcome made known, then it's a non issue.

While I personally think our government in the UK went on lockdown too late, I believe it was unavoidable. It's a deadly airborne virus spread from person to person with no know way of treating it. Flu and colds are treatable. Cancer and HIV is not spread in the same manner. The best way to avoid further spread is simply to reduce the manner in which it spreads. That's what was done. Sadly if it had been done earlier the results would have been better, but that would have required common sense, rather than crowds of people in the streets and in the pubs, because they media and our government at that stage were clearly underplaying the issue at that time, hoping it would go away by itself.

I hope you're right SF in which case humanity has defeated this virus. I think you're wrong; it is very similar to many other diseases whilst being far less lethal than most and the extreme measures did more harm than good. Let us see.

We will see indeed. Though I fail to see how the measures that reduced the amount of people out spreading the virus, failed as opposed to keeping more of them out there doing so. The fact that lockdown meant there were less people on the buses and other aspects of everyday life with those who spread and caught covid19 meant that was the correct action to take, not a wrong one.

that said whether further lock down will be required remains to be seen. I would hope not. The government certainly don't want it.