cartoon

















IMPORTANT NOTE:
You do NOT have to register to read, post, listen or contribute. If you simply wish to remain fully anonymous, you can still contribute.





Enter what you see:
This image contains a scrambled text, it is using a combination of colors, font size, background, angle in order to disallow computer to automate reading. You will have to reproduce it to post on my homepage Tip: Reload page if you have difficulty reading characters
Lost Password?
No account yet? Register
King of Hits
Home arrow Forums
Messageboards
Welcome, Guest
Please Login or Register.    Lost Password?
Go to bottomPost New TopicPost Reply
TOPIC: Let's talk about Sweden...
#211707
Wyot

Let's talk about Sweden... 2 Months, 1 Week ago  
Everyone else has stopped doing so, for some reason...Minimally vaccinated and masked they continue to have virtually no deaths. I guess they just got lucky and we did require 18 months of crippling restrictions or we would have had about 3 million deaths.

My guess: they are just a hell of a lot healthier than the Brits. It's the nudist colonies and nordic power walking that does it...
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#211714
Green Man

Re:Let's talk about Sweden... 2 Months, 1 Week ago  
Vitamin D is nature's medicine, so walking around in the nude like a hippy would help.

I have never been to Sweden but I am interested to know what their diets.
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#211722
Nurse Hedda

Re:Let's talk about Sweden... 2 Months, 1 Week ago  
The Lancet says otherwise.

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00885-0/fulltext


As of April 16, 2021, more than 13 700 people have died from COVID-19 in Sweden. The country has one of the highest infection rates in western Europe according to Our World in Data COVID-19 statistics, with 606 new infections per million per day, while its neighbours Denmark, Finland, and Norway reported 115, 62, and 112 new infections per million per day, respectively (April 15, 2021). New and more infective and deadly variants have taken over, and by April 15, 2021, the UK SARS-Cov-2 variant was supected to have caused 75–100% of all new cases in all regions. This indicates more rapid spread, more deaths, and that more young people will be affected, with intensive care units already at full capacity in some regions.4
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#211726
Re:Let's talk about Sweden... 2 Months, 1 Week ago  
Yes Hedda - if Sweden had also only protected and treated the vulnerable (mainly care home residents) they would have been totally correct. This trivial virus, when new, killed many - most of whom were dying already or very old, very sick, very obese or very diabetic. Until a way of treating it was found and vaccines invented (within months), this virus was nearly as nasty as a bad variant of flu. For the vulnerable. But it was never the killer plague painted by the media. That is to come. And like Ebola, we shall quote the boy who cried wolf and UNDER estimate how nasty it will be, having "learned" from this one which turned out to be not nearly as nasty as predicted.
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#211728
Wyot

Re:Let's talk about Sweden... 2 Months, 1 Week ago  
Nurse Hedda wrote:
The Lancet says otherwise.

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00885-0/fulltext


As of April 16, 2021, more than 13 700 people have died from COVID-19 in Sweden. The country has one of the highest infection rates in western Europe according to Our World in Data COVID-19 statistics, with 606 new infections per million per day, while its neighbours Denmark, Finland, and Norway reported 115, 62, and 112 new infections per million per day, respectively (April 15, 2021). New and more infective and deadly variants have taken over, and by April 15, 2021, the UK SARS-Cov-2 variant was supected to have caused 75–100% of all new cases in all regions. This indicates more rapid spread, more deaths, and that more young people will be affected, with intensive care units already at full capacity in some regions.4


I didn't mention infections nurse! I mentioned deaths. 15th Aug Sweden = 0/7 day average = 0. That is no deaths currently on my maths Hedda. And also far fewer deaths in total than most countries who endured restrictions. I think Sweden is an awkward case for mainstream Covid restriction enthusiasts...
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#211735
Honey

Re:Let's talk about Sweden... 2 Months, 1 Week ago  
Green Man wrote:
Vitamin D is nature's medicine, so walking around in the nude like a hippy would help.

I have never been to Sweden but I am interested to know what their diets.




I don't think there is a great deal of difference in actual ingredients except more fish, more butter,
More fruit, more vegetables, more pulses, and everything kept simple really.
Loads of puddings and cake though, so probably no better than any other diet.

I suppose it is possible that there is more vitamin D in the diet? But more likely that people just stand further away from each other, I think.
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#211738
Wyot

Re:Let's talk about Sweden... 2 Months, 1 Week ago  
Honey wrote:
[quote]Green Man wrote:


I don't think there is a great deal of difference in actual ingredients except more fish, more butter,
More fruit, more vegetables, more pulses, and everything kept simple really.
Loads of puddings and cake though, so probably no better than any other diet.

I suppose it is possible that there is more vitamin D in the diet? But more likely that people just stand further away from each other, I think.


I suspect it is a question of how many in Sweden eat a balanced, healthy diet and have an active lifestyle compared with Brits - who do the least exercise and are the fattest in Europe.
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#211744
Honey

Re:Let's talk about Sweden... 2 Months, 1 Week ago  
Wyot wrote:
[quote]Honey wrote:
Green Man wrote:


I don't think there is a great deal of difference in actual ingredients except more fish, more butter,
More fruit, more vegetables, more pulses, and everything kept simple really.
Loads of puddings and cake though, so probably no better than any other diet.

I suppose it is possible that there is more vitamin D in the diet? But more likely that people just stand further away from each other, I think.




I suspect it is a question of how many in Sweden eat a balanced, healthy diet and have an active lifestyle compared with Brits - who do the least exercise and are the fattest in Europe.


Sweden has an obesity problem too, it seems.

I am becoming less convinced by the theory of it only striking unhealthy people hard.

It makes sense, but I know too many exceptionally fit people who have become very unwell indeed. (or worse)

Obviously I wouldn't know about symptomless untested people whatever their age, but there seems to be so many twenty-somethings badly affected that it cant be a fluke?

I think maybe we are being given advice based on the "old" virus when the Delta mutant is very different?

But looking on the bright side, there cant be many of us left who haven't had it by now, surely?
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#211745
Re:Let's talk about Sweden... 2 Months, 1 Week ago  
Yes this new variant of flu struck and nobody knew quite what it was. But as the months went by, vaccines were found that worked very well at making it almost totally less lethal and considerably less serious for the vulnerable - many of whom caught it and died. Meanwhile the virus itself mutated and changed. Plus the vaccines affected it. Still, I think, the vulnerable (not always the obvious ones) will be affected differently. Obesity - big problem. Always was. Smokers (even years ago) may look fit now but lungs can have suffered long term damage. Likewise recreational drugs. Abuse of alcohol. But this was never a killer plague. At the start to was like a bad flu season. Sweden coped well; if only they had also protected care homes.
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#211748
hedda

Re:Let's talk about Sweden... 2 Months, 1 Week ago  
Wyot wrote:
Nurse Hedda wrote:
The Lancet says otherwise.

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00885-0/fulltext


As of April 16, 2021, more than 13 700 people have died from COVID-19 in Sweden. The country has one of the highest infection rates in western Europe according to Our World in Data COVID-19 statistics, with 606 new infections per million per day, while its neighbours Denmark, Finland, and Norway reported 115, 62, and 112 new infections per million per day, respectively (April 15, 2021). New and more infective and deadly variants have taken over, and by April 15, 2021, the UK SARS-Cov-2 variant was supected to have caused 75–100% of all new cases in all regions. This indicates more rapid spread, more deaths, and that more young people will be affected, with intensive care units already at full capacity in some regions.4


I didn't mention infections nurse! I mentioned deaths. 15th Aug Sweden = 0/7 day average = 0. That is no deaths currently on my maths Hedda. And also far fewer deaths in total than most countries who endured restrictions. I think Sweden is an awkward case for mainstream Covid restriction enthusiasts...


I admit I'm not a qualified nursie..

I live in a country now that has relatively few deaths (all are tragic - 15 year old boy 2 days ago) compared to the rest of the world but we are in a fierce lockdown.

Even the infection rates are low..400 today compared to 1000s in the UK..10,000s in the US.

I really have no idea why or how it all works..just place faith in 1000s of scientists and medical researchers and avoid the University of Youtube & Facebook

I suppose in years to come researchers will examine this pandemic minutely.
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
#211760
Wyot

Re:Let's talk about Sweden... 2 Months, 1 Week ago  
hedda wrote:
[quote]Wyot wrote:
[quote]Nurse Hedda wrote:


I really have no idea why or how it all works..just place faith in 1000s of scientists and medical researchers and avoid the University of Youtube & Facebook



The Universities of YT and FB I agree are best avoided.

I do at times feel, though, that people who argue as I do are misunderstood. We are not arrogantly claiming greater knowledge than scientists, or disagreeing with mainstream scientific opinion when completely unqualified to do so.

We leave this to conspiracy theorists.

We are drawing a distinction between science and public health policy. Science tells us how the virus transmits and how dangerous it is; and to the best of our knowledge how effective some restrictions may prove. It tells us nothingabout whether - following a cost benefit analysis which includes the harm and deaths caused by lockdowns - restrictions should be used.

That is a political decision.

Some may conclude lockdown harm is worth it for Covid 19 and others will disagree. Fine. What troubles me is that the debate is never had and rarely mentioned. The politicians hide behind "the science"; the media just focus on the far sexier "plague" story. No one is therefore held to account.

That some countries who did not lockdown have the same or better mortality rates than those who did is central to the debate (lockdowns kill too...) and we need to learn from them; not keep overlooking them as an inconvenient truth.

And we don't have to be scientists to note the problem. Covid 19 the virus (for scientists) is a different subject entirely from competing public health priorities and human rights (for all of us); even if the media, politicians and most of the world appear not to realise this at the moment.
 
Logged Logged
  Reply Quote
Go to topPost New TopicPost Reply