I do love the species showing itself at the basic most foolish; all those people happily marching and shouting and showing solidarity - the net result will inevitably be further distress and misery - the only solution is to kill off a chunk of our exploding global population but this is considered impractical and immoral (unless you're George Bush, Tony Blair or Saddam).

As long as it's a good story, the goal is achieved.

Am I becoming cynical?

JK2006 wrote:
I do love the species showing itself at the basic most foolish; all those people happily marching and shouting and showing solidarity - the net result will inevitably be further distress and misery

The new deal is the BEST that students can get (thanks to the Lib Dems) -

They pay NOTHING upfront.

They pay nothing back till they are earning £21K (Labour, who introduced Tuition fees, and are now pretending that they didn't, set the limit at £15K).

They pay back LESS per month than they do now.

The students are too thick to realise that this is a better deal.

Should these people ever be allowed near a University ?

I feel sorry for the Met. They are now being accused of not using enough force to dispel the students and for allowing HRH's car to be attacked. Surely that's the fault of the Royal Protection Squad (admittedly also a department in the Met) not planning the long way round to the theatre? They cannot win with the media barrage. They get blasted for being too rough with protesters at the G20 conference which led to the death of a homeless guy with advanced heart disease and cirrhosis - his family bleating on to the media about how disgraceful his treatment was -the same family that probably didn't give a toss about him before, but there's the potential of compensation with the media attention they receive.

Now they have to be careful not to hurt anyone - much gesticulating with batons and baring of teeth. How many of the 38 injured 'student protesters' will claim compo from the Met despite some of them being hit by missiles from their own comrades or from falling onto railings after climbing up the treasury walls to paint slogans?

The Met were lucky that someone didn't manage throw a grenade (instead of bottles) under the thinly armoured old Phantom VI with Charles and Camilla inside. The media barrage would have been much worse.

You could blame the parents of these protesters. Most of them probably still live with mum and dad at respectable homes. Middle class mothers with socialist pretentions were saying on the radio yesterday that they were allowing their 13 year old daughters to go to these protests. They will be the first to shout 'foul' when she gets hurt by a stray brick.

It's always been thus: most students aren't studying politics, most have a very average grasp of political issues, and most don't really understand why they're protesting. It's more of a jolly boys' outing. One was interviewed yesterday, explaining that he knew there was an issue 'and when I discovered what the LibDems had promised before the election...' 'When I discovered'?? It was only last May, for god's sake! Where was he then - living in a cave? It's vital the students find a really bright and serious leader to save them from being hi-jacked by the bunch of bourgeois Proudhons who are currently ruining any positive aims of these campaigns.

Iīm all for the protests. Young people need to make their voices heard.

I think itīs a bit ridiculous to be shocked by the violence. The students and mothers and workers on the streets apparently donīt like billions of pounds charity bail-out to the banks while being ripped off. Of course, the politicians donīt want the protests to spread (see i.e. the Tory headquarters to be occupated, congratulations to those who have the moxy to pull this off). So the corrupt politicians are the ones who order police violence towards protestors. Of course, people on the street will defend their lives; would you like to be trampled to death by a mad police horse?

I agree that all violence is bad. Iīm against violence at protests. Of course, all non-violent protests will simply be ignored by the neo liberals (we have seen that with one million people on the street against the Iraq war. Did that stop the politicians from sending young men to die? Nope). To be fair, thereīs always two sides of the story.

By the way, on this board Iīm not going to argue with conservatives or monarchists who sit in their armchairs in their cozy homes. You can call me mad idealist, treehugger, whatever, go ahead, the people on the streets know your propaganda anyway, they donīt give a fuck. Iīm not from London, but I wholeheartedly support the protests there.

If the Met were doing their job properly they would easily be able to distinguish between a rioter and someone (disabled) just trying to go home !

In the G20 protests they just hit out - at everybody !

What it that paint thrown at the Royal car had been acid ?

The police will have people in there infiltrating the march & sparking off trouble in order to garner public outrage/sympathy and more overtime. Get used to it, this is tip of the iceberg stuff. Young people (Generation Zzzzzz) are awakening from their lifelong slumber and realising they have nothing left to lose. Couple this with the more serious international outrages re: the wikileaks scandal(s) and rest assured we are in for a dangerous, tense and very interesting few years.
I'm quite excited, it might mean this species survives and there is actually hope for the future that doesn't just comprise of generic totalitarianism and rampant idiocy.

It is quite clear... about 5% of the protesters are brain dead morons just there to cause violent trouble and 5% of all police are in the business to smack people over the head (physically or legally).

Which is all you need to get extreme reactions from the thoughtless.

I wonder who paid your University fees?

My Mum.

the most obvious solution...students study for free and then pay what they can after...and corporations who employ them also pay a suitable proportion.

How idiotic is all this ?...the USSR sent it's brightest and best students straight into university..a backward poverty stricken land of peasants made itself a world power within 4 decades..Cuba does the same and supplies Africa and South America with doctors.

Put a bar like money in front of study and the whole country loses out.

What a bunch of losers the Tories are...totally devoid of creative thinking.

veritas wrote:
the most obvious solution...students study for free and then pay what they can after....

... and what about the ones who "drop out" after wasting YET more of our money ?

Most of these "students" have already had zillions spent on 10 years of education - and most can hardly spell their own name correctly.

Has anyone seen that horrendous Clare Solomon woman being interviewed on TV (Newsnight mainly)? She claims she is a student and is on of their "representatives"

Isn't she a bit old to be a student?
What is she studying ? - "How to avoid getting a job" maybe ?

Education isn't FREE - it never was.
What they mean is WE pay so they get something for FREE !

so what do the non-violent students who occupy the uni think?

hereīs a sample:

www.youtube.com/user/Northernvoicesmag

Don't make the mistake of confusing "students" as the problem. The problem as I see (as far as the "worth" of higher education goes) is successive governments using higher education as a "farm" in order to massage the employment figures, make degrees "the norm" and we don't have to employ people until they are into their 20s so they do not count as "working population". Of course, may degrees are effectively worthless as tools to gain superior employment as every average intellect has one as opposed to 30/40/50 (etc) years ago to be told your child was "university material" was to be told your child could aim for the Top 10% in life, not run up collossal debts in order to get a job as a trainee manager in a call centre.
It is scam to make it the norm that hardly anyone has spare funds at any point during their adult life and is therefore totally dependent on the availability of credit for "living".
Viva la revolution, we have NOTHING to lose!

Chris Retro wrote:
Don't make the mistake of confusing "students" as the problem. The problem as I see (as far as the "worth" of higher education goes) is successive governments using higher education as a "farm" in order to massage the employment figures, make degrees "the norm" and we don't have to employ people until they are into their 20s so they do not count as "working population". Of course, may degrees are effectively worthless as tools to gain superior employment as every average intellect has one as opposed to 30/40/50 (etc) years ago to be told your child was "university material" was to be told your child could aim for the Top 10% in life, not run up collossal debts in order to get a job as a trainee manager in a call centre.

Largely agree with you.


Viva la revolution, we have NOTHING to lose!

No ? Ask the Irish - or the Greeks !

LOWER pensions, LOWER tax credits, LOWER minimum wage, LOWER benefits, LOWER jobseekers allowance ... You getting the idea now ?

Send this guy in to deal with the students. David Cameron Cop. Problem solved.

Boarders,

In order to maintain smug aloofness, it's important not to know what's going on. Plese don't read the following, for example: kitwithnail.blogspot.com/2010/12/what-fo...-written-but-my.html

Likewise, completely ignore this video:

Commend yourself into the hands of the state broadcaster, the BBC. It will gracefully preserve you from such things.

Best Wishes,
Jim

WARNING: Jim has once again descended into irony. It's a Saturday night. Go easy.

In The Know wrote:
veritas wrote:
the most obvious solution...students study for free and then pay what they can after....

... and what about the ones who "drop out" after wasting YET more of our money ?

Most of these "students" have already had zillions spent on 10 years of education - and most can hardly spell their own name correctly.

Has anyone seen that horrendous Clare Solomon woman being interviewed on TV (Newsnight mainly)? She claims she is a student and is on of their "representatives"

Isn't she a bit old to be a student?
What is she studying ? - "How to avoid getting a job" maybe ?

Education isn't FREE - it never was.

What they mean is WE pay so they get something for FREE !

no of course nothing is free..but that includes the poor and unemployed and as we see..how much are the demonstrations costing ?. You cut one thing...say the dole and you end up paying more via increased crime.

But if you put a barrier in front of genuine talent then we all lose out.

Those who drop out can pay back in proportion.

Corporations do not pay their share of the graduates we produce in universities or college and graduates will pay more in taxes than others. The whole country may benefit from one educated person creating an item that sells and brings in funds.

Just like the working class musicians who actually saved Britain's balance of payments in the 1960's and that's why The Beatles got MBEs.

There has to be a completely 'holistic' approach here..the main agenda should be to find the very best minds and encourage them.

And then identify who benefits the most and apportion cost to them..whether the grads themselves, us or business.

But that requires a complicated thought process and today's politicians who pander to tabloids or the next election cycle will not do.

Agreed...education standards are woeful as they are in the USA. But I think that's deliberate. Those who rule do not want an educated society.